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Thread: A signal, according to Callaghan

  1. #46
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    One more question on the time deduction...

    LOL - I'm hesitant to even post more on this topic but here goes.

    As stated ad nauseum, I think one of the things most of us find frustrating about the judging in this sport is inconsistent application of the rules. It still cracks me up that the application of the rule in THIS case has caused such a stir.

    One thing I'm curious about, and I'm sincere with this question because I honestly don't know. The assumption has been put forward that this time limit rule is broken with some frequency and but rarely enforced. (and if that's the case, it's not right in my opinion) The only specific example I've heard about thus far where the rule was broken and apparently not enforced was Michelle's SP at US Nationals where she was timed at 2:43, at least according to ESPN/ABC. Does anyone know of other specific examples, or a web link or something where detailed information can be found?

    I would sure hope that since this particular rule is well within the skater's own control that skaters would be smart enough not to take a risk of a deduction when they have so many other things to focus on. So I really question how often this rule is really broken??

    Just curious if anyone has more factual information.

    DG

  2. #47
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    A signal according to Callaghan

    Here's my two cents:

    It seems to me that the responsibility of timing a program falls on the coach and the skater. I have heard Kwan call her coach "a genius". He doesn't appear to be as sharp as she claims.

    Dizzy

  3. #48
    Alexei he's my MAN Panther2000's Avatar
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    S & Z(Pairs) for instance, or anyone who skates past the last note of their music. Their music is timed to the second( for the program) During the Long Progams for S &Z. They did about 3 or 4 more poses before they finished their program. ( think they were finishing off their final lift when the music stopped) & anyone else over the years who has skated beyond their music. & sometimes their music is too long & they have to hold their starting position for a few seconds to come under the time limit.


    But, whatever it is water under the bridge now. & Michelle showed all she is a legend in the sport. Professional & Grace. She pretty much shrugged it off & focused on the LP( As she should)

  4. #49
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by B.O.H.I.C.Astan
    Richard Callaghan. Hmmm. I'm sure that if skating wanted to send a message to Michelle the messenger they'd select would not have molestation charges on his resume.
    ?? Callaghan isn't the one sending the message, he is claiming that the judges are sending Michelle a message.

    Just to keep the facts up with the rumors, we might recall that the investigation into the charge of inappropriate relations between a coach and a student was dropped without resolution by the USFSA because the allegations were too old. And that the young man in question was over eighteen at the time of the alleged incidents.

    Mathman

  5. #50
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Panther...

    My understanding of the timing rule is that it has nothing to do with ending on or off the music. It has to do with the lenth of time between the beginning and end of the actual skate. The point here is that if your music is timed to, say, 2:35, that gives you five extra seconds if you do finish after your music. If the music is timed to exactly 2:40, which it appears Michelle's may be, then you have no room for error in terms of ending a second or more after your music.

    DG

  6. #51
    http://p068.ezboard.com/bstrawberrycanyonfsc
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    I don't think any messages were sent except for these:

    *Michelle, we love you, but if you make a mistake in the QR, we can't hold you up.

    *Irina, same thing.

    *Miki- grow up some before we put you on the podium.

    *Sasha, we love you too, but with a mistake like that in the LP, we can't give you gold...

    No retirement messages...

  7. #52
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    why all the conspiracy theories?

    I think that after watching it LIVE in DOrtmund I thought that Michelle was placed where she was placed in the SP because she deserved to be there. Reagardless of the time penalty her standing would be the same. No doubt Sasha would be in 1st. She really is stunning in the SP as she always is. Shizuka 2nd although she has a slightly cheated triple toe and Ando 3rd because of the triple lutz triple loop. ANdo also has pretty good spins and nice quality and smoothness although she's a bit slow. You know after someone does huge combos like the Japanese it sucks out the energy from the stadium and when MK skates there's a feeling that whatever she does it wont be as technically fabulous as whats happened before. So that gives the viewers like me and the judges a sense of dissapointment almost even before she starts. I thought it was fair judging..

  8. #53
    Alexei he's my MAN Panther2000's Avatar
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    Question Re: why all the conspiracy theories?

    Originally posted by adamlondon
    I think that after watching it LIVE in DOrtmund I thought that Michelle was placed where she was placed in the SP because she deserved to be there. Reagardless of the time penalty her standing would be the same. No doubt Sasha would be in 1st. She really is stunning in the SP as she always is. Shizuka 2nd although she has a slightly cheated triple toe and Ando 3rd because of the triple lutz triple loop. ANdo also has pretty good spins and nice quality and smoothness although she's a bit slow. You know after someone does huge combos like the Japanese it sucks out the energy from the stadium and when MK skates there's a feeling that whatever she does it wont be as technically fabulous as whats happened before. So that gives the viewers like me and the judges a sense of dissapointment almost even before she starts. I thought it was fair judging..
    Just take a look at her scores. With out the deductions. outside ot the [color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color] 5.1 in the tech. She would have been in 3 or maybe tied for 2nd. Remember, she would have had 4 6.0's in Presentation. & mostly between 5.7 & 5.8 for tech. No one is doubting sasha's SP. & She & Michelle had the same jumps. That was great However, with her skate in the LP. She would have ended up with Silver not bronze. Nothing wrong with the bronze either. But, there was a difference because of the deduction. However, I am glad that they let the deduction stand. Othewise, the boards would be filled with Basher claming that Michelle gets special treatment. This way her medal has no negative scandal attached to her. But, my point is that without the deduction she would have have been 4th but second. Yes, the other ladies had 3/3's but, that was about it. Their Presentations scores would have been much lower.

    But, that is water now under the bridge.

  9. #54
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    Re: why all the conspiracy theories?

    [i]You know after someone does huge combos like the Japanese it sucks out the energy from the stadium and when MK skates there's a feeling that whatever she does it wont be as technically fabulous as whats happened before. So that gives the viewers like me and the judges a sense of dissapointment almost even before she starts.[/B]
    Then why have a competition at all?

    I doubt there are many judges who are "disappointed" after watching MK skate (and I am not a fan). This is just a ridiculous statement.

  10. #55
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    ITA the mandatory deductions. I also agree that w/o the deduction, Michelle should be 2nd. Some European commentators thught Shizuka and Ando with their 3/3 should be placed above Sasha and Michelle. I guess I won't challenge that view too much. I however totally don't understand and disagree with the view that Michelle without a 3/3 should be placed behind Ando (even w/o deduction), but Cohen without a 3/3 should be ahead of Shizuka and Ando. This particular view to me is inconsistent, either vote for the jumps or vote for the presentation, and overall package.

    Michelle's sp was very good, to me it is a toss up between Sasha and Michelle, and if people think Sasha is one slot ahead of MK I have no problem either.

    In summary, IMO without the deduction if the sp goes
    SC
    MK
    SA and
    Ando

    I agree

    With deduction, as judged
    SC
    SA
    Ando
    and MK

    I agree too.

    I do not agree with the thought that even without deduction it should be
    SC
    SA
    Ando and
    MK
    Last edited by gezando; 04-03-2004 at 01:00 AM.

  11. #56
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    A signal, according to Callaghan

    Sometimes I think Richard Callagha is upset that Michelle is still as popular or more popular then any skater he has ever coached. I think we should not read anythink more into. Michelle is still the star attraction with COI and gets standing O's after every performance. Look at the long at the worlds, they were out of the seats before she was finished. That is a testament to how loved she is. My hats off to the brilliant and still on top of the world Michelle Kwan.......

    diamond

  12. #57
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    Did anyone see Michelle on The View? She said she was frustrated because she used the same program last season and nobody ever said anything, then at worlds in the practices nobody every said she was over the time limit. I can understand the frustration. Who else was docked for going over time? I've seen loads of skaters finish the final pose after their music but never heard of them taking deductions.

    Maybe this happens a lot and we just don't hear about it because it doesn't effect the top 3. Does anyone know?

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