Battle for bronze medals in pairs and ice dancing

Ryan O · Mar 18, 2014

Yes, the judging was suspicious at the Cup of Russia - I remember it at the time. It seemed like all the non-Russian dance teams were marked much more strictly than they had been at other events. I think W&P dropped about 10-12 points from their Skate Canada score, and I remember that G&P dropped about 10 points from what they had received a couple weeks earlier at NHK.

Some of us didn't want to think this sort of thing was going on in dance judging again, or make assumptions about the Russian officials, but it did seem to foreshadow some of the issues in Sochi. And as mentioned on another thread, the ISU should permanently remove Yuri Balkov - he has no business being a skating judge ever again.

Yes, I think W&P will take it season by season and see how they perform next year after V&M have presumably retired officially, along with D&W, and perhaps P&B.

I'll also be interested to see how the other North American dance teams do, and whether they can move up the standings. G&P did not have the greatest Worlds last year, but this year their marks have been getting better and they have the opportunity to move up - I'm hoping they can finish 10th. Also would like to see if P&I can redeem themselves after their disappointing results in Sochi. I'm also curious to see how Aldridge & Eaton rank at their first Worlds in relation to the Canadians and Europeans.

blue_idealist · Mar 19, 2014

pangtongfan said:
You are exagerrating. Who the heck do you think we are talking about, Davis & White, NO, we are talking about Pechelat & Bourzat, a team with only 1 world medal in their extremely long career, who once lost a world medal to the Shibutanis. P&B lost to 3 of these teams at worlds just last year, and that doesnt even include I&K. I dont think they will not medal, but it certainly isnt impossible they dont.

Heck even I&K could possibly not medal as they are prone to big mistakes at times. It will probably be P&B vs I&K for gold, and several others for bronze, but none of these teams are V&M or D&W at this point. Everyone is beatable in this field.

If V&M and D&W were attending, I could see P&B off the podium, but I'm 99.99999999% sure they will be on it this time. I can't see them being beaten by both Russian teams plus W&P or C&L.

Ryan O · Mar 19, 2014

I think P&B will be on the podium, too. It's probably just a question of which colour.

Dots · Mar 19, 2014

It will be a battle between P/B and W/P for gold.

blue_idealist · Mar 19, 2014

Dots said:
It will be a battle between P/B and W/P for gold.

I'm not sure about W/P. Everyone keeps hyping them but then they ended up 7th at the Olympics, even if they were underscored (I'm not really sure).

chuckm · Mar 20, 2014

Dots said:
It will be a battle between P/B and W/P for gold.

Not if there are 3 former SSRs on the FD panel (RUS UKR BLR).

Pippuripihvi · Mar 20, 2014

chuckm said:
Not if there are 3 former SSRs on the FD panel (RUS UKR BLR).

In case you have not noticed, UKR and RUS are not exactly on friendly terms right now

Ryan O · Mar 20, 2014

Not sure that the political situation in the Ukraine & Russia will have an effect on the figure skating judging, but you never know...

cptnhastings · Mar 20, 2014

If someone thinks a Ukranian judge would still be 100% for a Russian team just because they were pals 25 years ago, that person's drinking some water from Chernobyl. If anything, the Russians should object at a Ukranian judge now. It's utterly insane right now that a Ukranian judge would be pro-Russia. Ditto with most of any country east of Russia. Especially Estonia.

The thing I found most annoying about the women's figure skating controversy was how easily people thought former eastern European countries were still so in the bag with Russia. It's just not true. They might like the "Russian style", but not Russia. (I do think Carolina should've won fyi.) I still blame dumb judges rather than country-biases. But I know others disagree with me so no worries if you disagree.

96skiluvr · Mar 20, 2014

As long as I/K beat B/S here again, they should easily solidify their status at Russian #1

pangtongfan · Mar 20, 2014

The figure skating world is a different world from the political world. Ex Soviet allies have stuck together in figure skating for years since the breakup and stemmed their power outwards from there. They couldnt care less if their countries were the pivotal ones in a world war, they would still bloc judge in any figure skating event.

chuckm · Mar 20, 2014

Yup. There are two opposed groups of Ukrainians: the Ukrainians that speak Ukrainian and want home rule, and the Ukrainians who speak Russian and want closer relations with Russia. Which group do you think Yuri Balkov comes from? I suspect that ALL the Ukrainian judges, who were trained under the old Soviet system, belong to the latter group and would naturally support the Russian side in any dispute or decision, including judging decisions.

It should be noted that in the Baltic states, and in the Ukraine, during WWII, the Russians invaded and even after the war many Russians remained and settled in both areas. Later, when the Soviet Union joined the ISU and began to train judges for figure skating competitions in those countries, they obviously did not select the ethnic members of those countries but the 'loyal' Russians who had settled there. The Soviet Union did not break up until the early 90s, so the middle-aged and older judges you see on the panels from former SSRs are the judges that were selected and trained for their loyalty to the Soviet state. It takes many, many years to be certified as an ISU judge (one who is qualified to sit on a panel at an ISU championship), so few newer judges from those countries who are indeed from the ethnic population may have reached that level yet. Another question is which group within the Ukraine (or the Baltics) controls the selection of the judges sent to competitions. That could be interesting in the case of the Ukraine. If that group is now part of the Crimea that has been absorbed by Russia, along with all the Ukrainian judges, then perhaps Mr. Balkov and his counterparts can no longer judge for the Ukraine.

Pippuripihvi · Mar 20, 2014

cptnhastings said:
If someone thinks a Ukranian judge would still be 100% for a Russian team just because they were pals 25 years ago, that person's drinking some water from Chernobyl. If anything, the Russians should object at a Ukranian judge now. It's utterly insane right now that a Ukranian judge would be pro-Russia. Ditto with most of any country east of Russia. Especially Estonia.

The thing I found most annoying about the women's figure skating controversy was how easily people thought former eastern European countries were still so in the bag with Russia. It's just not true. They might like the "Russian style", but not Russia. (I do think Carolina should've won fyi.) I still blame dumb judges rather than country-biases. But I know others disagree with me so no worries if you disagree.

I agree.

pangtongfan · Mar 20, 2014

chuckm said:
Yup. There are two opposed groups of Ukrainians: the Ukrainians that speak Ukrainian and want home rule, and the Ukrainians who speak Russian and want closer relations with Russia. Which group do you think Yuri Balkov comes from? I suspect that ALL the Ukrainian judges, who were trained under the old Soviet system, belong to the latter group and would naturally support the Russian side in any dispute or decision, including judging decisions.

It should be noted that in the Baltic states, and in the Ukraine, during WWII, the Russians invaded and even after the war many Russians remained and settled in both areas. Later, when the Soviet Union joined the ISU and began to train judges for figure skating competitions in those countries, they obviously did not select the ethnic members of those countries but the 'loyal' Russians who had settled there. The Soviet Union did not break up until the early 90s, so the middle-aged and older judges you see on the panels from former SSRs are the judges that were selected and trained for their loyalty to the Soviet state. It takes many, many years to be certified as an ISU judge (one who is qualified to sit on a panel at an ISU championship), so few newer judges from those countries who are indeed from the ethnic population may have reached that level yet. Another question is which group within the Ukraine (or the Baltics) controls the selection of the judges sent to competitions. That could be interesting in the case of the Ukraine. If that group is now part of the Crimea that has been absorbed by Russia, along with all the Ukrainian judges, then perhaps Mr. Balkov and his counterparts can no longer judge for the Ukraine.

Excellent points. There are two different major factions in Ukraine and one of them (the one most involved in skating as you broke down so well) is very pro Russian. Hopefully Balkov is part of Crimea and we never have to see that vile and corrupt man giving Russia a 2nd judge outright on panels again.

dorispulaski · Mar 20, 2014

The question is whether the Ukrainian fed continues to list him.

It sometimes happens that a judge does not live in the country for which he judges.

Dostatni, who judges for Poland, has worked out of Colorado Springs for some years.

pangtongfan · Mar 20, 2014

I wonder if the many Russian judges who judge in foreign countries with no judges even bother to move there then, or they just judge for their new "country" while continuing to live in Russia. The whole system is a crock anyway, and makes it so easy for the Soviets to continue their century long cheating ways, which were back in full force in the Sochi Farcelympics.

Mrs. P · Mar 20, 2014

dorispulaski said:
The question is whether the Ukrainian fed continues to list him.

It sometimes happens that a judge does not live in the country for which he judges.

Dostatni, who judges for Poland, has worked out of Colorado Springs for some years.

Another example is Ashley Cain's dad who still is a technical specialist for Australia but lives in Texas.

gmyers · Mar 20, 2014

pangtongfan said:
I wonder if the many Russian judges who judge in foreign countries with no judges even bother to move there then, or they just judge for their new "country" while continuing to live in Russia. The whole system is a crock anyway, and makes it so easy for the Soviets to continue their century long cheating ways, which were back in full force in the Sochi Farcelympics.

The soviets? Lol! Why didn't you just write Russians?

gmyers · Mar 20, 2014

pangtongfan said:
Since it isnt just about the Russians, but all the ex Soviets. That sphere of influence still runs the sport.

The previous posts were all about Russians moving all over the Soviet Union and the Russians being the people chosen to be judges? Did it not above say balkov was probably Russian?

chuckm · Mar 20, 2014

Sure. Olga Baranova, who was the assistant tech specialist on the Ladies tech panel, was born in Russia and lives in Finland but is listed as a tech from Finland on the ISU tech specialist list. This is the exact opposite of Cain and Dostatni who represent their countries of birth but live elsewhere.

Listing her as representing Finland allowed Baranova to be on the Sochi panel with Russian Tech Controller Lakernik, getting around the requirement that the three members of the tech panel must be from 3 different countries.

But it was a fraudulent, disgraceful manipulation of the rules for the purpose of influencing the outcome of the ladies competition.

Battle for bronze medals in pairs and ice dancing

Ryan O

blue_idealist

Ryan O

Dots

blue_idealist

chuckm

Pippuripihvi

Ryan O

cptnhastings

96skiluvr

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

chuckm

Pippuripihvi

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

gmyers

gmyers

chuckm

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