Please remove Ice Dance from the Olympics! It's not a sport. | Golden Skate

Please remove Ice Dance from the Olympics! It's not a sport.

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
The problem with ice dance is its very nature. Basically, it's not a sport. I love watching it, it's beautiful, but it's not a competitive sport. Period. And it should be taken out of Olympics. Right now!
I can watch performing arts, read poetry and listen to music, but I will never demand to include them into Olympics.

If there is global demand to take Ice Dance out of Olympics, I want to add my signature!
The reason for this is that it is not measurable by a casual observer at all. For a casual observer, as long as there is no visible flop or fall, there is no difference between 20th performance and the best performance. Absolutely no difference!
Outside of the very elite nobody else can tell a difference. There is no clear and obvious measuring stick. This is why the sport should disappear from the Olympics. Period. It defies the definition of competitive sports.

In all sports we measure time, distance, points, etc. Even in figure skating pairs or individual competitions a casual observer can tell if the performance was successful by seeing jumps, rotations and failures. In ice dance it's impossible. You have to belong to the very inner elite to see things. And it defies the idea of the Olympics, where sports must have global appeal, must be globally clear and transparent.

So my vote: remove ice dance from the Olympics! Is there any organized group or movement to enforce it, I want to join!
 

Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
The reason for this is that it is not measurable by a casual observer at all. For a casual observer, as long as there is no visible flop or fall, there is no difference between 20th performance and the best performance. Absolutely no difference!


In all sports we measure time, distance, points, etc. Even in figure skating pairs or individual competitions a casual observer can tell if the performance was successful by seeing jumps, rotations and failures. In ice dance it's impossible. You have to belong to the very inner elite to see things. And it defies the idea of the Olympics, where sports must have global appeal, must be globally clear and transparent.

Well, but in singles you have gold medallists who fall 2 or 3 times in their winning routines, so it's not like in other disciplines it's more obvious and clear for casual viewers.

What I don't like in ice dancing is that it's way too predictable. But after seeing a total splatfest from men I've been thinking about following ice dance more, since at least you know what kind of performance can you expect from your favourites.
 

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Problem is in singles, PCS and GOE can be more subjective than intended. If we're going to argue about ice dance not being a sport because of judging issues and thus not Olympics worthy, the same argument can be made for all FS disciplines as well.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Dance is really not that hard to understand. In fact, the rules are a lot clearer than some of the jump rules, particularly where,like YuNa once, and Jason this week, you can be charged with a jumping pass when you never left the ice.
 

MaiKatze

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
I'm not a fan of Dance either, but it is more sport to me than say Darts, Snooker, Chess, Car Racing or dare I say it Curling. It all comes down to the definition of "sport" in the end. And this differs between people.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Dance is really not that hard to understand. In fact, the rules are a lot clearer than some of the jump rules, particularly where,like YuNa once, and Jason this week, you can be charged with a jumping pass when you never left the ice.

It doesn't matter. Yes, there will be always judging controversies. There are many judging controversies in all sports, even the most measurable. You cannot avoid it.
We can argue if a jump was under rotated or not landed cleanly, but this is why we do have judges. And as we have judges there will be controversies. But at least THERE ARE jumps, everybody can see if a skater landed on a skate or on a butt, if the jump had one or three rotations. There is a point of reference measurable by a casual viewer. In ice dance there is nothing measurable. NOTHING.
 

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
It doesn't matter. Yes, there will be always judging controversies. There are many judging controversies in all sports, even the most measurable. You cannot avoid it.
We can argue if a jump was under rotated or not landed cleanly, but this is why we do have judges. And as we have judges there will be controversies. But at least THERE ARE jumps, everybody can see if a skater landed on a skate or on a butt, if the jump had one or three rotations. There is a point of reference measurable by a casual viewer. In ice dance there is nothing measurable. NOTHING.

- Spins: fast? Slow? basic or difficult positions? Centered or traveling?
- Twizzles: in sync or not? fast or slow?
- Lifts: Difficulty? length? Positions? rotation?
- Footwork: in sync? ice coverage? fast?
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
There are judging controversies in every discipline of figure skating. It's the nature of the beast because it's subjective judging and opinions - not a timed event. But you just go face any one of those dance couples and tell them Ice Dance isn't a sport! Hours on the ice, hours off the ice doing physical training for strength and endurance, working on programs and learning new dance steps for hours on end. They also have to have a modicum of skating ability to do the lifts.

This is as much a sport as any other discipline in figure skating.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
I'm not a fan of Dance either, but it is more sport to me than say Darts, Snooker, Chess, Car Racing or dare I say it Curling. It all comes down to the definition of "sport" in the end. And this differs between people.

Darts, snooker and chess are not in Olympics. And still they are very measurable. There is no sport more measurable than chess. You simply win or lose, there is no judging or controversies. Even in curling. I am not familiar very much with curling, but I think it's the same thing, isn't it? You simply win or lose, there is no subjectivity, correct? So I don't know what your point is, really.
And whether you like curling or not it's your choice, but it is in Olympics because 1. it's a measurable sport and 2. there is enough demand for it.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The problem with dance is that the rules basically make it a second fiddle to pairs. For example, there is no reason lifts should not be allowed to go over the man's head other than to distinguish it from pairs. I would like dance more if there was more risk involved. Twizzles just aren't that impressive to me.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
- Spins: fast? Slow? basic or difficult positions? Centered or traveling?
- Twizzles: in sync or not? fast or slow?
- Lifts: Difficulty? length? Positions? rotation?
- Footwork: in sync? ice coverage? fast?

Congratulations for belonging to the elite. Probably every other person on this forum is also in the "elite", but it still doesn't change my point.
 

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Congratulations for belonging to the elite. Probably every other person on this forum is also in the "elite", but it still doesn't change my point.

...elite? What?

I just listed a few measurable things in ice dance of which you said there are none.

I agree there's subjectivity in ice dance. But there's subjectivity in ANY judged sport. ALL disciplines of FS included.
 

Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Congratulations for belonging to the elite. Probably every other person on this forum is also in the "elite", but it still doesn't change my point.

But actually, most of my family were most interested in ice dancing at these Olympics, because "it's a pure pleasure to watch" :). They really do not care where each dance team placed, they just want to have some fun watching the competition. And it's easier when noones falling.
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
But actually, most of my family were most interested in ice dancing at these Olympics, because "it's a pure pleasure to watch" :). They really do not care where each dance team placed, they just want to have some fun watching the competition. And it's easier when noones falling.

My family also passionately watches So You Think You Can Dance. Should we demand it in the Olympics?
 

Chemistry66

Mmmmm, tacos.
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Measurable to a casual viewer who watches figure skating for one hour per every four years. If so.

Fine. Maybe some of those are a little much. But a casual every-four-years viewer can see faster vs. slower, synchronicity, and complicated vs. simple lift positions at least.
 

Rikku

Just enjoying the skating
Final Flight
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
If you take ice dancing out of the olympics with the reasoning of 'it's not a sport', the same argument can be made to take it out of worlds and other competitions. It's not more or less measurable four weeks from now.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I am a casual viewer of ice dance but I can see the difference from the best to the rest of the teams. Also, Tessa's mistake in the team competition short program and the problem with their lift in the team long were very apparent to me, even thought I don't know much about the rules or the scoring. And the fact that the rules are not known to the "non-elite" shouldn't disqualify it. The same could be said for curling! (and gymnastics and diving and singles and pairs skating)
 

Manitou

Medalist
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Fine. Maybe some of those are a little much. But a casual every-four-years viewer can see faster vs. slower, synchronicity, and complicated vs. simple lift positions at least.

Yes, and every pair from top 20 is doing that pretty much the same. More or less. This is why they are at the Olympics.

Rikku said:
If you take ice dancing out of the olympics with the reasoning of 'it's not a sport', the same argument can be made to take it out of worlds and other competitions. It's not more or less measurable four weeks from now.

True. It would mean the end of Ice Dance as a sport. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe ice dancing belongs to shows.
 

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom
Record Breaker
Joined
May 10, 2010
By your argument, then anything that's judged subjectively should be out of the olympics. Let's see, that includes Synchronized Diving, Men's and Women's Aerials, Snowboarding Half-Pipe, Skiing Freestyle... anything that involves subjectivity should be out of the Olympics. That's a dangerous slope.
 
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