Judging Davis and White

Matt K · Feb 19, 2014

I am responding to someone whose all 6 posts challenged what I said about the qualities of both skaters. If no one wants to challenge the scores or discuss qualities and differences of the skaters (USA's first gold medal in ice dance, yay!), that's fine. But I was asked to elaborate.

If you don't like their material that's fine. That's your opinion. You can say whatever you feel like. I sure as heck won't try to stop you, unlike you.

bbgarfield · Feb 19, 2014

Matt K said:
Why don't you watch their Olympic performances before judging? I have. Or if you want to watch jumping up and down that hurts the knees, watch a throw triple jump being performed in pairs.

And yes, I have. I have even recorded it for judge's educational material so that I can rewatch, but I cannot post it because of copyright infringement. As I have stated before, too bad, the rules in ice dancing have changed. Those jumping up and down elements DO count as much as the ice dancing pattern itself. It's listed in the judges guidelines and judges skating materials. You either go with the flow and gain as much points as possible under COP system or get outdated and skate the old ways and risk placing lower under the current system. Time's changed and things go forward. BLAME THE SYSTEM AND NOT THE JUDGES OR SKATERS. If you think this is not the right direction for ice dancing, you can always write and complain to ISU, but these are the rules for judging right now which every judge needs to follow.

And nowhere in the forum have I tried to stop you from saying what you want to say, right?

bbgarfield · Feb 19, 2014

Actually, as a personal preference, I do prefer V/M's programs over D/W's programs most of the time for that overall romantic feelings on ice. But then as a judge following protocols, I have to put D/W over V/M because of judging guidelines. Got it?

Matt K · Feb 19, 2014

It's not about romantic feelings on ice. It's not even about athleticism vs. chemistry. It's about skating skills and technique. Ice Dancing, you know. Certainly not jumping up and down on the ice. But hey, whatever rocks your boat.

Matt K · Feb 19, 2014

Oh, and also, I have saved copies of all ice dance tapes to review as educational material as part of my judging duties. We are all judges. Every single one of us :laugh:

bbgarfield · Feb 19, 2014

Matt K said:
It's not about romantic feelings on ice. It's not even about athleticism vs. chemistry. It's about skating skills and technique. Ice Dancing, you know. Certainly not jumping up and down on the ice. But hey, whatever rocks your boat.

Just to show you personal preferences and judging guidelines are two different animals. It's not whatever rocks my boat because V/M is my preferred dance team, it's whatever rocks the judging protocol and ISU, period. And ice dancing has changed, there's no way you can change how the current Olympics is judged under the guidelines (and I was not the one who's writing them). Want the old system back? Write to ISU to get your opinions heard, or be a judge in your federation, go up the ranks and get your influence to work.

Matt K · Feb 19, 2014

D/W are my preferred team too, love them, but looking objectively at both pairs, I stand by what I mentioned in my earlier posts about V/M's standout qualities. I have eyes too, and I will not change what I said about the teams. You can have your opinion too, that is okay. You are not going to get me to change my mind :laugh:

.

All 10 posts of yours to date, every single one of them, were posted just TODAY and all responses to me. Scary. DW fans :slink:

*scary*

Freddie · Feb 19, 2014

I so agree! There was no whining or bitterness from Meryl and Charlie when Tessa and Scott won in Vancouver. No coach-blaming. No sneaky insinuations of cheating. Just accepting the silver with grace and dedicating themselves to do better next time. As others have posted, they have beat Tessa and Scott in EVERY competition this year. Were ALL the judges crooked at every competition? Tessa and Scott, and the Canadian commentators, are not doing themselves proud. They come off as churlish. petulant sore losers.

bbgarfield · Feb 19, 2014

Matt K said:
Oh, and also, I have saved copies of all ice dance tapes to review as educational material as part of my judging duties. We are all judges. Every single one of us

Real skating judges are the ones who have registered and listed in their federations. Are you one of them? I am.

ice coverage · Feb 19, 2014

MattK and/or bbgarfield, if you are still reading this thread:

I still am hoping for an answer (from anyone knowledgeable) to my question in an earlier post re Finnstep requirements. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Also, it was not bubbly or mildly humorous. Yes, I am not thrilled with the My Fair Lady music, but it does meet requirements, even if not an inspired choice ...

I don't see how it wasn't bubbly. "Heaven, I'm in heaven"?

golden411 said:
Agree with Blades. Seems to me that one man's bubbly is another's non-bubbly ... hwell:

Doris, just curious:

Is humorous one of the ISU specifications? And if so, what is humorous about Davis/White's My Fair Lady selections?? :think:

Matt K · Feb 19, 2014

Right, because jumping up and down on the ice takes a larger toll on the knee and thus makes ice dance harder. :laugh:

Judge? Okay, if you say so :laugh:

bbgarfield · Feb 19, 2014

Matt K said:
Right, because jumping up and down on the ice takes a larger toll on the knee and thus makes ice dance harder.

Judge? Okay, if you say so

It's the 'creation of vertical negative spaces'. Judges' school says so, not me.

bbgarfield · Feb 19, 2014

Golden411: Server is extremely slow right now. I cannot retrieve earlier posts. Can you email me please with link? Thanks.

WeakAnkles · Feb 19, 2014

Olympia said:
I doubt that Davis and White will continue skating that long. The point is rather that we American and Canadian fans should enjoy the gold medals of both Davis/White and Virtue/Moir. The next dynasty will be Russian, and might remain so for the foreseeable future. Our North American golden age, which has lent a glow to both Canada and the United States during both Olympics, has probably ended for now.

What I am hoping, but not, alas, expecting, is that the athleticism PLUS artistry won't be replaced by watered-down technical complexity and angsty uber! drama! But frankly I'm not holding my breath.

KKonas · Feb 19, 2014

Matt K said:
Oh, and also, I have saved copies of all ice dance tapes to review as educational material as part of my judging duties. We are all judges. Every single one of us

In your dreams only.

figureskatingfan22 · Feb 19, 2014

Aside from the nasty side notes this was the most helpful discussion about Virtue/Moir's and Davis/White's placements I read in both FSU and GoldenSkate. So thanks Matt K and bbgarfield! (I honestly mean it!)

So the gist is:
D/W won according to the current IJS judging guidelines. They skated a modern / current ice dance. That's how ice dance is supposed to look now according to the rules independent from our own preference.
V/M skated more in the traditional ice dance way. Although many people prefer that traditional ice dance school it's outdated now!

So to win Virtue/Moir would have had to skate more like Davis and White or in other words should have read the rules better.

Explanatory note: I'm an V/M uber and I'm still sad about the outcome. For years I tried to understand what V/M did wrong. Most experts (TV Commentators, Figure skating journalists) said that D/W are the rightful winner. That made me think. But they failed to properly explain the reasons. Now I finally start to unterstand.

lavender · Feb 19, 2014

I was really hurt that Chan lost then the hate for D/W came. :disapp:

Dee4707 · Feb 19, 2014

gsk8 said:
Lad, first you post about how V/M should be nominated for the Order of Canada medal since "anyone can win an Olympic medal". Did that not get enough attention for you? Did you have to start another to further downplay D/W achievements?

Very bad taste.....

Thanks Paula, my sentiments exactly.

slider11 · Feb 19, 2014

Marina put it best. "It's ok. Last time they were first. This time second." Really... I was so glad to see a strong North American contingent in the stands cheering for the ladies on both sides of the border today. C'mon, let's learn from them. Let's be global citizens and get over any misguided quasi-patriotic delusion. Be proud of all of our skaters and celebrate the victories we all should share with them.

ice coverage · Feb 19, 2014

bbgarfield said:
Golden411: Server is extremely slow right now. I cannot retrieve earlier posts. Can you email me please with link? Thanks.

Thx, bbgarfield. :bow:

Judging Davis and White

Matt K

bbgarfield

bbgarfield

Matt K

Matt K

bbgarfield

Matt K

Freddie

bbgarfield

ice coverage

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Matt K

bbgarfield

bbgarfield

WeakAnkles

KKonas

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Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

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