Ladies Free - Notes & Results

THE LADIES LP

There were four goups to skate the LP. The first group to skate and the last skater was Manzano (Australia) who showed a lot of potential for f A-ture competitions. Another was Dan Fang (China) who skated very good and wond the group.

The second group standouts included Jennifer Robinson who skater beautifully and undermarked. In this group was Jennifer Kirk who was no at her best. Susanna Poxkio was in this group although she should have been in the next group. She skated marverlously and won the group.

The third group to skate had the fabulous Fumie and skated fabulously and goarks much hier than others for this group. Neither Vikka or Elena S skated well and received marks accordingly. Irina skated and and while problematic she got the crowd going. Overmarked but second to Fumie

The final group to skate opened up with Shizuka and it was a hard act to follow. two sets of 3x3s and a most lzrical performance. It can not be beaten!!! Following Shiyuka Julia Sebestyen and she was also on the ball. Sasha came next and except for a few booboos skated verz well but without the yip she had in the Qual Round or the SP. Michelle took to the ice and there was a kookie guz dressed as a ballerina carrzing on. MK left the ice and when the all clear came, shje returned to a thunderous crrowd. she skated to the crowd and Tosca never looked better.. Miki Ando came on next but did not live up to her SP peformance Last was Carpliner who was not up to her best.

Overall the Ladies were good with the Japanese ladies coming to full swing. The American gals need to get 3x3s. They are now standard fare.

Joe

mpal2 said:

I'm still trying to sort everything out, but I'm happy for all. I'm confused though. From what I understand, Michelle would have been in 2nd after the short without the time deductions. If she hadn't of gone 2 seconds over and got the time deduction, where would she have placed by being 3rd in QR, 2nd in SP and 2nd in LP. Would she have been in 2nd overall?

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NO, she would still be 3rd over all:
SA: 0.4 + 1.8 + 1 = 3.2
SC: 0.4 + 0.6 + 3 = 4.0
MK: 1.2 + 1.2 + 2 = 4.4
MA: 0.8 + 2.4 + 4 = 7.2

Now, had her not doubled that last 3 lutz, assume another judge would've placed her ahead of Arakawa made it 5/4 split in MK's fav, she could've won as the marks will be like.
SA: 0.4 + 1.8 + 2 = 4.2
SC: 0.4 + 0.6 + 3 = 4.0
MK: 1.2 + 1.2 + 1 = 3.4
MA: 0.8 + 2.4 + 4 = 7.2

Oh, well. Nothing is perfect. You can calculate all the possible outcomes in faver to your favorater all day long, but sometimes things just don't go your way. LOL.

No matter what happened, it happened. As long as she is happy I'm happy. We all know at some point she will stop competing. Let us, her fans, just enjoy the moment whenever she is step on ice to compete and give us the Kwanderful performance. Just fell so proud of her.

ETA.
Sorry if there is redundant. after post then saw Ptichka & TV's calc.

Thanks Joe for reporting. Really appreciated you on site reports.

thvudragon said:

She would still have been 3rd overall. It would have been something like this

Arakawa
0.4+1.2+1.0 = 3.6
Cohen
0.4+0.6+3.0 = 4.0
Kwan
1.2+1.2+2.0 = 4.6

Kwan still would have been 3rd regardless, because of her poor qualifying performance.

TV

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You gave both Arakawa and Kwan a 1.2 for the short, so if the short went 1. Sasha, 2. Michelle, 3. Arakawa...it would have looked like this. You also added wrong for Kwan and Arakawa, but the calc was wrong.

I would have went:

Arakawa
0.4 + 1.8 + 1.0 = 3.2
Cohen
0.4 + 0.6 + 3.0 = 4.0
Kwan
1.2 + 1.2 + 2.0 = 4.4

So, third no matter what. Same answer but the correct calc.

gellio said:

You gave both Arakawa and Kwan a 1.2 for the short, so if the short went 1. Sasha, 2. Michelle, 3. Arakawa...it would have looked like this. You also added wrong for Kwan and Arakawa, but the calc was wrong.

I would have went:

Arakawa
0.4 + 1.8 + 1.0 = 3.2
Cohen
0.4 + 0.6 + 3.0 = 4.0
Kwan
1.2 + 1.2 + 2.0 = 4.4

So, third no matter what. Same answer but the correct calc.

Click to expand...

lol, thanks. I didn't notice I made an error there. Wow, I made big errors, lol. It's reading the Red Badge of Courage, I swear! It's messing with my mind!

Thank you Rosaleen for the timely reporting of marks...but I really appreciate your nice touch of describing the attire! Simply cannot wait till later today to see this on TV!

goldenpalace.com streaker

If you go to the streaker's site (goldenpalace.com) which is an online casino they have all kinds of pictures of their streakers at other sporting events - superbowl, etc.

Weird and disruptive folks. I guess they pay weirdos to do this

Thanks for all the replies

I didn't feel like figuring out the ordinals and I knew someone would have the answer!

Re: goldenpalace.com streaker

sk8dc said:

If you go to the streaker's site (goldenpalace.com) which is an online casino they have all kinds of pictures of their streakers at other sporting events - superbowl, etc.

Weird and disruptive folks. I guess they pay weirdos to do this

Click to expand...

I promise, I will _never_ go anywhere near those idiots' website.

And although I like to think I'm a non-violent person, I really wish the "security" guards beat the crap out of him. This freak should be prosecuted (I think Kwan should sue his sorry ass off).

But since Germany invented and has since perfected the sporting security lapse, i'm sure nothing will happen to him and the scum that run the web site will see increased traffic and send out more freaks to do similar things in the future.

Summary: EVERYBODY ELSE, DO NOT VISIT THE WEB SITE, IT WILL ONLY ENCOURAGE THEM

I am very proud of MK.. I know how bad we all wanted her to win, but out of the whole world of womens skating 3rd isnt half bad after all.. I know I expect alot out of my horses and I get disappointed when they are the favorites and dont win year after year.. But like humans, horses, and all animals...THEY ARE NOT MACHINES! Yes, I hope this will make MK come back next year stronger and better than ever..with hopefully something new..Also, it sounds very much like SA deserved to win.. It will be interesting to see her artistry improve over the next year TT as her new coach.. Once agian I am excited about the future of figure skating..........Peace

I feel there are somebody out there paid the weirdo doing that too. It must be very hard for any level's skater suddenly delay the performance and has to regroup uncertain time later. For many skaters, an incident like this could totally ruined their jumps and everything. Because you were almost ready to do that final shot after prepairing for many months intensively, and suddenly you were forced to change the timing. Only Michelle, could handle this beautifully, even after that not-so-lucky short program incident.

Just watched Michelle's program. It was very well done. But, frankly, after watching Arakawa's with those 3/3s, those incredible layback positions on the spins and the Ina Bauer, etc.--it was a no brainer which deserved gold. Sasha's LP is not on line at this time. I'll just have to wait!

I can't remember which article I read now, but I know that Shizuka came under fire from reporters for cheated jumps in the SP. I think it lit a fire under her; they sure won't be questioning her LP. Good job for Shizuka!

final result

Although the final result reflect what happened on the ice, for the top 4 ladies, I have a big problem with some of the judges, who put either Sasha or Michelle 1st ahead of Arakawa....
There was such a technical gap between Arakawa and the 2 US ladies, that in no way their artistry should've carried them into first place.
Also, Shizuka closed the gap in terms of presentation, recently. She took her time to emphasize some of the beautiful positions, and I just don't understand the decisions of some of the judges.
Luckily the majority didn't see it that way, some of the judges were watching some tapes tonight and not the competition.

Herios

The streaker picked the best skater to jump in front of. Guaranteed he'll be all over American tv, with the big ratings for the ladies' LP.

I'm so happy and surprised for Arakawa. TT must be ecstatic. Wonder how Callaghan feels. Good for Michelle, what a classy lady. I can't believe Brian Williams suggested retirement to her.

Cohen really didn't have the fire tonight, and what happened to all of her choreagraphy and her spins? They were completely watered down.

I'm happy for our Canadian ladies too. They should have been a bit higher. Nice for Robinson to go out on a good note.

Jaana said:

I saw on Eurosport that in backstage Sasha was hugging Tarasova too, and after that Sasha put her head down... Tarasova must have had a huge laugh, now she got a ladies World Champion, and only after a month´s work, LOL.

Marjaana

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Glad to see that they're both good sports about the whole split thing...

Just saw the CBC braodcast. Shizuka rocked! Her jumping is so impressive. I think she may have been overmarked a bit on presentation, but she definitely deserved her position. This version of Sasha's program was terrible, IMO, especially compared to what it was in the fall. It was horribly front-loaded with very little choreography. She did not look too comfortable or relaxed during this performance. Unfortunately she still will have to deal with the "choking" reputation she has gained. CBC said that she "has a history of flopping in the free program". A bit cruel to me. Still, congrats to her for earning the silver medal. A big step up from last year. Michelle's composure after the idiot on the ice was very admirable. Especially after reading that she thought maybe he had a gun, so she quickly left the ice. Her skate was wonderful and I am so impressed with how high her jumps have gotten. Still, I am really hoping that next year she adds more choreography and the 3/3. It seems like I have been hoping that for the last couple of years, but next year is the biggy for me. Other than the big jumps, Ando did not impress me too much in this performance.

a big thanx to everyone on this board, especially rosaleen for diminishing the heart attack i would have had tonight when watching the performances.

rosaleen, you made me feel as if i was there...

and way to go for japan's first ladies champion in ten years! (wow, it really has been that long since yuka...)

ZOWEE!!!

SHIZUKA: I am just thrilled to pieces for Shizuka! She's had those 3/3s for a long time and has a quality about her flow across the ice that is unrivaled, but she could never pull the artistry/presentation together. It's been coming bit by bit since the fall and I give at least some credit to the COP. Not taking a thing away from Callaghan, Tarasova, and Shizuka herself, plus the foundation provided her by her Japanese coaches, but the COP put her weak areas into clear categories and gave her and her coaches specific ways to improve them. I already cited her spirals as one example, ie, used to be weak, then with COP she and Callaghan improved them up to Level 3. But another example is her combo and layback spins. Trying to do a traditional layback witht he free leg in a turned-out, bent position just didn't work for Shizuka. She just didn't have the necessary external rotation in the hip to do it. She always had a great back position, but by straightening the free leg, problem solved. But I give credit to the COP because I don't think Shizza would have worked so hard on her spirals and spins had they not been good point earners. After all, Shizza has been on the scene since the mid-90s; didn't even make it to Worlds for several years; and in the last two years, with what I feel was a combination of the coaching change to Callaghan and this fall's experience with the COP, it's as if she found the door to her magic garden.

As for Tarasova, I think she excels at something Callaghan lacks, which is passion. IMO, it was the last thing Shizza needed to go all the way--a way to express the true passion she has within her through her skating. In many ways, Shizuka has been the Sasha Cohen of Japan. Tons of potential but never able to step up to the plate at the big competitions. She also came into this Worlds carrying a lot of pressure from having changed to Tarasova a month ago. Plus there was the pressure of being first in her Q group and second in the SP. She handled it all brilliantly. As someone said, "Shizuka skated like she really wanted it," and I think truer words were never spoken. If you look back on the relatively few ups and many downs of Shizza's career, this was a woman with a mission. She went about finding the right people to work with and solving her problems with determination, grit, and intelligence. And I LOVE her sense of humor! So refreshing! Brava! Brava! to Shizuka for her perserverance and a very well-deserved World championship. I couldn't be happier. I mean, how totally cool is it for your first World medal after all Shizuka has been through to be gold! Here's my headline: Japanese Bronze Medalist Wins Gold at Worlds! A big *mwah!* (kiss) for Shizza!


SASHA: I am so proud of this young woman! She finally did a clean long and a clean short, meaning the Q round and the SP, that were also, by all accounts, skated with great attack and passion. I know the Q round is not the same pressure as the finals, but still, two mistake-free programs at Worlds is so great for her. Of course she still had a problem with the 3sal in the free skate, still has the flutz, but no falls, and for her this is a major step forward. Her FS also lacked spark and attack, according to those who saw it live, but I'm still thrilled for her. She not only had the pressure of being first in her Q round with, if I'm correct, the highest scores of the skaters from both Q groups, and the pressure of being first in the SP, but most importantly, the pressure since '02 of being *Miss Inconsistent.* Add to that her coaching change to Robin Wagner, only to see her closest competitor from the GP series change to Tarasova a month before Worlds. A lot has been said about how the US ladies need to get 3/3s to be competitive, but this is something Sasha talked about specifically in the article, "No Holding Back for Cohen."
"Despite the strong competition, we won't be seeing a triple-triple combination in Cohen's programs at Worlds. 'I've worked on them in practice,' revealed Cohen, 'and they are coming along fine, but I don't plan on using them in my programs for Worlds. They will definitely be a big priority over the summer.'" [Emphasis added.]
http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2003/031204.shtml

In an AFP article about the Q rounds, "Wake-up Call for Kwan as Japanese Duo Surge to Lead," the writer says of Cohen's Q round, "The Californian produced six triples including two in triple-double combination, opting to leave out a seventh triple toeloop in a bid to give a clean performance which so often escapes her." Cohen is quoted as saying, "We took the decision to take it (the triple toeloop) out andconcentrate on giving a strong performance."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...afp/20040324/ts_afp/fskate_world_040324185739

There's also another article, an interview with both Cohen and Wagner, which I can't locate at the moment, where Wagner says that she intentionally left out any 3/3s from Cohen's World programs because at this point, she wanted to concentrate on Sasha giving clean performances and also work with her on some basics, such as stroking and edge quality. However, Wagner also said that after Worlds, she would work with Cohen on not only 3/3s but also a quad, which Wagner said were completely within her abilities. (If anybody can recall this article, I'd appreciate the link.)

The one thing that surprises me about Sasha's free skate are the reports that her layback spin was slower than Shizuka's and possibly slower than Michelle's. One of Sasha's strengths is her fast, clean, well-centered spins, with her layback being one of her highlight moves. However it also sounds as if her other spins were up to par. The slow layback is puzzling; the only thing I can think of is that Sasha's back may have been bothering her.

Finally, until I see it, I can't comment on the choreography. But even if "Swan Lake" was as watered down from Tarasova's versions as it was at Nationals, I'm sure it was a result of Wagner's strategy to get clean programs from Sasha and then start a rebuilding process after Worlds. From all accounts, Sasha's free skate lacked spark and had some errors, but looking at her overall performance at these Worlds, it is a quantum leap--or should I say quantum split falling leaf--forward from her previous World performances. Plus, she's coming home with her first World medal, a silver, and beat one of the greatest skaters ever, Michelle Kwan, in the process. Sasha and Robin have a lot of work ahead of them, but I say Brava! to Sasha, too. It looks like she's overcoming those demons one by one, slowly but surely. The only other thing I hope for Sasha is that she learns to express the kind of heart that Shen & Zhao showed at both this year's World's and last, especially in their "Turandot" and "Nutcracker Pas de Deux" free skates. I know she's got it in her. She just needs to find that low door in the wall leading to her own magic garden.


MICHELLE: What more can I say? Once again Michelle proved that you can NEVER count her out. In a post after the short I said, "I'm not counting Michelle out, not by a long shot," and I meant that in terms of the gold. She didn't quite pull a Sarah, but she showed her mettle and by all accounts, won over the European crowd. BTW, Mzheng, I LOVE your coining of the term *Ice Art Run* for Michelle's footwork. That is IT! Also, how many skaters could come up after the disappointment of her Q round, the shock of the time deduction in the SP, Shizuka's stunning program, Sasha's good one, have some whackjob jump on the ice just as she is about to skate, not be fazed by any of it, and give such a great performance? One: Michelle Kwan.

As for the problems Michelle had with some of her jumps, I really think it's just part of the learning curve with Artunian and that by next season, we'll see the benefits she will have reaped by working on her jump technique. IMO, the main reason Michelle has been having problems getting her 3t/3t back and doing any other 3/3s is that the technique she learned from Frank, which though obviously great, was learned when she had a much younger and different body. With maturity and the off-ice training, the latter of which I think was absolutely necessary for her to stay in the sport uninjured, Michelle's body has become stronger overall and more muscular, especially in her upper body. This would change the biomechanics of anybody's jumps. From all I've heard about Artunian, he seems tuned into this kind of thing and seems to have the knowledge about how to work with a skater who has this unique situation--great, secure, consistent triples and 3/2 combos, but needing a change in technique in order to accommodate the increased speed and power needed to do 3/3s without pain and/or injury. I have no doubt that Michelle will have mastered two different 3/3s either by next year's Worlds or fall '05.

Although obviously this has been a disappointing Worlds for Michelle, I think it's the best thing that could have happened in terms of her quest for an OGM in '06. When you've been skating at her extraordinary level and been on top for so long, there's no substitute for *the shock of the new.* That is, no matter how self-motivated, hard working, and gifted an athlete is, there's nothing like being beaten by skaters with the kind of technical content, ie, 3/3s, that heretofore had been a threat, but one that had never quite manifested itself. Sokolova was the first to make her 3/3s more than talk in her FS at last year's Worlds, but her presentation was so inferior to Michelle's that even with two 3/3s, Michelle's win was never in doubt. Obviously this year was different. But I have no doubt that Michelle will be a stronger skater because of all this and far more likely to win the OGM in '06. Also, this kind of thing could not have happened at a better time. This gives Michelle two years to not only work on her 3/3s and jump technique in general, but also to possibly reconsider her strategy. She may decide that competing in the GP series in order to get experience with the COP will be to her advantage. Or she may not. Either way, at least now I think Michelle has a much better idea of what the competition will be like in Turin. In short, I'm sure Michelle will use this Worlds as a positive experience. Brava! Michelle, once again.


And Brava! to so many of the other ladies: Jenny Kirk, Fumie, Ando, Kostner, Irina (whatta woman!), and others I can't think of at the moment.


NOW the onus of responsibility is on several groups to keep skaters safe as they push the technical limits of the sport. One responsibility is for figure skating boot manufacturers to stop resisting changes in the boots to reduce the risk of injury for skaters. The responsibility is also on the coaches and the skaters to at least try the new boots that are available and make sure they take appropriate off-ice training very seriously. Another responsibility lies with the ISU in terms of decisions they may or may not make about limiting the number of jumps per program. For the women, it's 3/3s and quads; for the men, it's quads and 4/3s and 4/3/2s, etc. Upping the technical ante will only be good for figure skating if skaters have the equipment and training to do them with an acceptable risk of injury. Right now, I feel the risk is unacceptable.


Congratulations Shizuka, Sasha, and Michelle. What a gorgeous podium!
Rgirl

.....And Bravo RGirl for a magnificent summation of the medal winners........... 42