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Thread: Reactions and criticism of judging by Network commentators - NBC, CBC, BBC, etc

  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    Everybody's opinion and perception matters in this sport, except the judges opinion and perception. It's quite funny.
    Of course the Judges's opinion and perception matters, but they are trained to be as objective as possible by following the rules set out by the COP, and that objectivity is suppose to rise above personal preferences and biases. It is the difference of being professional vs a hack

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  3. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    As usual, Phil misses the forest for the trees.

    There are actual quotes from Yuna after the competition in which she complimented Adelina, declined to make comparisons between Adelina's performances and her own, and declined to make an issue about the scoring.

    The IOC "student reporter" could've taken any of those REAL quotes and used it in the article, but for some reason, decided to fabricate quotes from Yuna, which basically eliminated any reference to a controversy and which tied in to the Youth Olympic Games. That's wrong. Fake quotes are fake quotes. Yuna wants nothing to do with the controversy, but she should not be expected to endorse any cover-up either. I don't think Yuna is less magnanimous because her agency didn't want fake quotes posted in an article on the Olympics official website.

  4. #724
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Of course the Judges's opinion and perception matters, but they are trained to be as objective as possible by following the rules set out by the COP, and that objectivity is suppose to rise above personal preferences and biases. It is the difference of being professional vs a hack
    And in their opinion they are not biased but as much objective as they can be, so what are we going to do about this?!
    I'm not speaking about this case in particular but in general. For as long as I remember there has been a controversy almost in every Olympic.
    If not the ladies than ice dance, if not them than pairs, men.
    However, there are many factors contributing in a victory I think.
    Politics it's one of these and a major one. Big Fed's fight for power, and it includes ALL big federations. No one excluded! To pretend otherwise it's pure hypocrisy, and no offence to North Americans because I'm not talking about the nation, but their press and lobby are the worst when it comes to hypocrisy. Of course you have to have good skaters in order to play this game of politics, but big fed's usually do have them.
    There are also other factor such as the schools of figure skating, formation, culture and style. I think people often forget about this but that does matter. A judge from Poland (just a random example) it's most likely to find a strong Russian skater much better than another strong skater from USA, Canadian or German simply because he/she/them represent the “ideal” skating.
    An Italian judge most probably will never get tired of a Swan Lake program, Tosca or any classic style while a NA judge most probably would. I find that quite natural tbh.
    There are also the personal preferences. To pretend that judges don't have them it's like pretending they're not human. There is also the reputation that skaters have, and of course there are also mistakes (see Sasha Cohen in 2006) and poor preparation.
    They also sometimes reward a "brave" performance, or you might call that politics as well, like Zhang & Zhang LP in Torino 2006, for example?
    They were awarded the silver medal and the second place in free skating even though they stopped skating for more than three minutes after that horrible fall. They finish their routine and skated well, so “gold medal” for her courage but silver medal for a competition result? Just not possible, and here rules are very clear and simple.
    The interruption taken by Zhang & Zhang exceeded the two minutes allowance by at least one minute, but no penalty was applied. Deductions should be applied for interruption to the program (1.0 for 11-20 seconds' interruption, -2.0 for 21-30 seconds' interruption, etc.) but the deduction for this was not applied. Components marks, was their personal best of 125 points. How can you possibly give them their personal best in components when the performance was clearly affected by this long interruption? That was absolutely not fair to the other pairs but nobody protested, why?! Because the third and fourth place pairs were also from China (internal affair of the Chinese federation ) so who cares?!
    There a lot more for the 4rth and 5th places and that's important because a skater who's placed in 4rth today most probably will finish on top the next year. That's how judges and federations push their skaters. Nobody seems to care though, unless of course it's not someone from your own federation. In that case it's a huge scandal, depending which country has the best and biggest mouth media.
    It was a shame to even start to compare Bourne&Kraatz with Anissina&Peizerat in 2002, or with the top 2 Russians and the French in 1998.
    Nevertheless, their media always accused the judges of fixing the results. B&K and their coach said they "just" wanted a fair judging. No, they did not want a fair judging. They wanted judges on their side, because if they really wanted fair judging than the Lithuanian's would've finished on 2nd or 3rd place, in 2002, with the Canadians placing 5th, and rightly so.
    Hell no, their people and the press started to play the same tune over and over again, since 1998, and it became a “fact” that they were robbed.
    If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. (cit.) right?
    That's how reputations are build as well.

    However, I get all this. I don't like it but I understand the purpose of all this charade.
    Skaters, coaches, federations, their respective press has many things at stake and various interests. What I don't understand it's the fans. They act like mad people and the majority takes everything that comes out from the press, or various “experts” to be the bible.
    When they lose judges are corrupt, when they win judges are ok. When they lose, it was a fixing, when they win "hard work paid".
    How does this works exactly?! How can we possibly think these people are sincere when they say "we want to clean this sport"?!
    Do they really want to change this sport for the better? Fine, they have the power do so.
    Coaches, skaters, judges, and officials can get organised and put pressure on their own federations and therefore to the ISU.

  5. #725
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    ^ THIS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Paul Wylie said he thought Kim was tepid.

    Also Per Michelle Kwan. While she preferred Kim's skate. Under this Scoring system, Adelina won fair and square. Because of more difficulty.
    http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/st...n-gold1-022014

    We should try to avoid listening to Paul Wylie.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownian View Post
    We should try to avoid listening to Paul Wylie.
    Wait so Kwan said Adelina should have won? When did she change her mind? Did it have something to do with not being invited back to do Yuna shows?

  8. #728
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    Yahoo Sports about the "Sochi fraud":

    http://voices.yahoo.com/hershs-artic...92.html?cat=14

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    It's yahoo voices! That means nothing.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by starrynight View Post
    Yahoo Sports about the "Sochi fraud":

    http://voices.yahoo.com/hershs-artic...92.html?cat=14
    One sided garbage. Proves nothing but the writers bias and I am not one to defend Sochi judging! Might as well be another garbage story from the Wire. Opinions are not news and prove to undermine any argument and its overall value of any realistic claims. The way to the truth is not thru exaggerations and sensationalism. This author is playing on people's emotions. That is all, Shameful!

  11. #731
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    In defense of Kurt - he is one of the best commentators to date in figure skating, but he does tend to get a little emotional now and then (that is our Kurt!). I think in fairness, Kurt was rather taken by surprise by the generous marks given to Russian skater Adelina. Sometimes Kurt, does not spare his thoughts, perhaps he should have at this time, but he was right, her marks were questionable.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's yahoo voices! That means nothing.
    Not a real journalist. We have discussed this before.

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    Pretty much all of it. Journalism is supposed to be about objective catalogueing of sources on both sides. Not pulling together quotes to support your own point of view. "Kim Denied a Second Gold" is an opinion. It does not belong in reporting. Perhaps in opinion pages, but certainly not in reporting. This would never fly in respectable newspapers.

    That Gallagher is respected is a matter of opinion; I've never heard of him till now.
    The headline as it read was not opinion. It was fact. Whether Yuna was denied a second gold by a superior skater or incompetent or cheating officiating, Yuna was denied a second gold. That much is a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by starrynight View Post
    Yahoo Sports about the "Sochi fraud":

    http://voices.yahoo.com/hershs-artic...92.html?cat=14
    Thank you for sharing. Yet another entry to the ever-growing collection. I find the author's narrative accurate for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Helms
    Moreover, Kim is not the only victim of Sochi fraud.
    Aye. Ain't that true.. I think of certain Catholic church scandals looking at this saga. The similarity is striking.

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    Please be sure you understand what a source is.
    A "source" can be unnamed. In this case, if you are stating that the skating reporter is not a source because they do not have any "inside information", you don't know that for sure (for example that person may be researching a expose and may not want to make the findings public). Either way, I agree that Gallagher's prose is slanted and is better suited to a column than a story.

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