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Thread: Reactions and criticism of judging by Network commentators - NBC, CBC, BBC, etc

  1. #736
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    A "source" can be unnamed. In this case, if you are stating that the skating reporter is not a source because they do not have any "inside information", you don't know that for sure (for example that person may be researching a expose and may not want to make the findings public). Either way, I agree that Gallagher's prose is slanted and is better suited to a column than a story.
    Using anonymous sources to complain about a judging failure which is undoubtedly was caused by anonymous judging is just plain QUESTIONABLE! Ill go as far to say it calls the authors ability to see the ENTIRE picture into question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Using anonymous sources to complain about a judging failure which is undoubtedly was caused by anonymous judging is just plain insane. Ill go as far to say it calls the authors ability to see the ENTIRE picture into question.
    I would not call it insane. Ironic? Sure, but I could see how someone not wanting to give away their identity if they are working on an exposé.

  3. #738
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    I would not call it insane. Ironic? Sure, but I could see how someone not wanting to give away their identity if they are working on an expose.
    I've never been a fan of opinion pieces that pass as news and I get really queasy at the thought of anonymous sources. I guess insane is way over the top so ill recant and instead say "questionable". Maybe that is more fair. It is quite ironic. I for one put little credit into people who make claims that aren't willing to defend. Which is exactly what the judges did in Sochi!

  4. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I've never been a fan of opinion pieces that pass as news and I get really queasy at the thought of anonymous sources. I guess insane is way over the top so ill recant and instead say "questionable". Maybe that is more fair. It is quite ironic. I for one put little credit into people who make claims that aren't willing to defend. Which is exactly what the judges did in Sochi!
    As I mentioned, the piece had a healthy slant to it and Gallagher would be better writing it as a column than a story.

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    Might as well put this clip here in the correct thread.

    Sky Italia commentary with English Sub by an Italian figure skating fan.
    Original Translation and Video credit: Emil Petrov on Facebook.
    Subtitles colour codes are: Silvia Fontana (2 time Olympian and retired figure skater in white), Danilo Freri (blue) and Massimiliano Ambesi (green).

    http://vimeo.com/89457478

    This combined with Sonia Bianchetti's write up for the Olympics makes a pretty damning criticism of the judging at Sochi from the Italians.

    http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_sochi2014.html

  6. #741
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Might as well put this clip here in the correct thread.

    Sky Italia commentary with English Sub by an Italian figure skating fan.
    Original Translation and Video credit: Emil Petrov on Facebook.
    Subtitles colour codes are: Silvia Fontana (2 time Olympian and retired figure skater in white), Danilo Freri (blue) and Massimiliano Ambesi (green).

    http://vimeo.com/89457478

    This combined with Sonia Bianchetti's write up for the Olympics makes a pretty damning criticism of the judging at Sochi from the Italians.

    http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_sochi2014.html
    From these names you mentioned only 2 deserves their opinion to be respected, for me.
    One is Bianchetti and the other one is Ambesi. The best and the most objective expert and commentator in Italy.
    Although, he did said later in the studio that he was for Kim but he would go easy on calling it a scandal. He also did compare the footwork between Sotnikova and Kostner using a parallel video.



    @capcomeback

    Yuna was denied a second gold. That much is a fact
    Carolina might've been denied a first gold, as well. So not so much a fact that one is it?

  7. #742
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    From these names you mentioned only 2 deserves their opinion to be respected, for me.
    One is Bianchetti and the other one is Ambesi. The best and the most objective expert and commentator in Italy.
    Although, he did said later in the studio that he was for Kim but he would go easy on calling it a scandal. He also did compare the footwork between Sotnikova and Kostner using a parallel video.



    @capcomeback



    Carolina might've been denied a first gold, as well. So not so much a fact that one is it?
    you can also argue w/ the whole nbc panel as well.. at least the italians are not biased.. to think they have carolina..

  8. #743
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    you can also argue w/ the whole nbc panel as well.. at least the italians are not biased.. to think they have carolina..
    They are, they are belive me!
    Rai (pubblic tv) for example is not only biased but the broadcasting is horrible as well.
    Eurosport is the best, and the guy Ambesi I mentioned, is the best one in Italy. Very knowledgeable and objective. He works for them and also covered Sochi for Sky.

  9. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    The headline as it read was not opinion. It was fact. Whether Yuna was denied a second gold by a superior skater or incompetent or cheating officiating, Yuna was denied a second gold. That much is a fact.
    I think you are equating "I don't have X" with "I was denied X". You can only be denied things which you think should have been yours by right.

    Otherwise, I can run a story titled "I Was Denied Barack Obama's Job."

    And it would be true, in a sense - I don't have his job, after all, do I? I must have been denied.

    And in that sense, every single skater in this event except Sotnikova was "denied" a gold medal. Also, all the men were denied a medal in ladies' singles skating. And in pairs and dance, too.

  10. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    A "source" can be unnamed. In this case, if you are stating that the skating reporter is not a source because they do not have any "inside information", you don't know that for sure (for example that person may be researching a expose and may not want to make the findings public). Either way, I agree that Gallagher's prose is slanted and is better suited to a column than a story.
    Yes, sources can be unnamed but you must agree that using anonymous, unverifiable sources does reduce the credibility of one's argument very substantially.

  11. #746
    Tripping on the Podium sowcow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Might as well put this clip here in the correct thread.

    Sky Italia commentary with English Sub by an Italian figure skating fan.
    Original Translation and Video credit: Emil Petrov on Facebook.
    Subtitles colour codes are: Silvia Fontana (2 time Olympian and retired figure skater in white), Danilo Freri (blue) and Massimiliano Ambesi (green).

    http://vimeo.com/89457478
    Wow, those are some strong opinions!

    During the 'pre-score' period (prior to the scores being announced) the Italians are perhaps the most vocal in declaring Yuna as the gold medal winner (as compared to commentators from other networks).

    Post-scores, I'd also argue the Italians are comparatively more outspoken and critical of the judges decision!

    It is especially interesting to watch how their comments transition from initial denials "I can't believe it, I can't believe it ... No, no, no, no, no ... No way, c'mon ... that's impossible"; to utter astonishment "I have no words ... why do [the judges] have to ruin our sport"; followed by protests "she would have been a beautiful bronze, she would have been a worthy silver, but she's NOT a gold!". I can only imagine the hurricane of hands & flurry of flying fists during their impassioned critique! hehe

    However, after the initial shock and protests, I give Massimiliano Ambesi (green translation) credit when despite his belief that Yuna was robbed, he recognizes their collective responsibility as commentators to give some sort of explanation to their Italian audience on just how the judges might have been able to give higher scores to Sotnikova (e.g. she had one extra triple; Yuna's step sequence was downgraded to a level 3, etc.):

    "In my opinion too, Kim should be the gold medalist; but we must give an explanation to the people at home ..."
    (@ 5:05)


    That really speaks to his understanding/knowledge that big judging controversies like these tend to drive many casual viewers/fans away, which subsequently leads to steep declines in viewership & ratings.

    Thanks for posting the video os168!
    .

  12. #747
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    I find that video almost hysterical - it's like they are trying their best to fulfill the expectation of every Italian stereotype, the lounge act, the supper club routine. "Absolutely perfect"? "Nothing to add"? Seriously?

    Also, "they've put her in the worst position, the last to skate"? WHO put her into this position? She drew a number. Just like everybody else.

    "It's not a counting exercise." Uh, Sylvia, that's exactly what it is. Sorry lady, 6.0 has been retired since you competed.

    "Make Adelina perform a tango"? Huh? Must everyone do what everyone else does?

    Seeing as an equal number of people believe Carolina should have been first, I would have been pissed at the commentators if I was Italian for not backing their girl.

  13. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I think you are equating "I don't have X" with "I was denied X". You can only be denied things which you think should have been yours by right.

    Otherwise, I can run a story titled "I Was Denied Barack Obama's Job."

    And it would be true, in a sense - I don't have his job, after all, do I? I must have been denied.

    And in that sense, every single skater in this event except Sotnikova was "denied" a gold medal. Also, all the men were denied a medal in ladies' singles skating. And in pairs and dance, too.
    Nope. In the parlance of the language, "Denied" does not always mean what you're saying it means. It could simply mean "was beaten". The same way that a goalie "denies" a goal by making a brilliant save.

  14. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    Nope. In the parlance of the language, "Denied" does not always mean what you're saying it means. It could simply mean "was beaten". The same way that a goalie "denies" a goal by making a brilliant save.
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I believe that the word "denied" implies a sense of unfairness and entitlement on the part of the one denied. In a sense, Adelina's win denied gold to everyone, not just Kim. You can't possibly argue that Kim was the sole favorite of the event and no one else was expected to be her competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    I find that video almost hysterical - it's like they are trying their best to fulfill the expectation of every Italian stereotype, the lounge act, the supper club routine. "Absolutely perfect"? "Nothing to add"? Seriously?

    Also, "they've put her in the worst position, the last to skate"? WHO put her into this position? She drew a number. Just like everybody else.

    "It's not a counting exercise." Uh, Sylvia, that's exactly what it is. Sorry lady, 6.0 has been retired since you competed.

    "Make Adelina perform a tango"? Huh? Must everyone do what everyone else does?

    Seeing as an equal number of people believe Carolina should have been first, I would have been pissed at the commentators if I was Italian for not backing their girl.
    PCS should not be just a counting system. In this regard Silvia was quite correct. TES SHOULD just be a counting system, but has been subverted by GOE.

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