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Thread: Reactions and criticism of judging by Network commentators - NBC, CBC, BBC, etc

  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    PCS should not be just a counting system. In this regard Silvia was quite correct. TES SHOULD just be a counting system, but has been subverted by GOE.
    But the thing is, it IS. PCS is a way to express some of the intangibles - not all - in numbers. It's not like they are pulling these numbers out of thin air. It is perhaps not explicated well enough to distinguish between what deserves a 7.85 vs. 8.25, but it's a numbers' game nevertheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I believe that the word "denied" implies a sense of unfairness and entitlement on the part of the one denied. In a sense, Adelina's win denied gold to everyone, not just Kim. You can't possibly argue that Kim was the sole favorite of the event and no one else was expected to be her competition.
    Not an opinion. It is a fact that the word is used the way I'm telling you it gets used. There is no use arguing semantics here.


    1.
    http://www.northjersey.com/sports/me...again-1.732589

    Men's basketball: Rutgers denied by UConn again
    March 6, 2014
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    The Record

    Rutgers’ 42-year drought on the road against Connecticut continues.

    Shabazz Napier scored 26 points in his final home game, leading 19th-ranked UConn to a 69-63 win over Rutgers on Wednesday night to extend a Scarlet Knights’ road losing streak to the Huskies that began in 1972.
    - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/sports/me....w4XFRvlJ.dpuf


    2.
    http://www.gcdailyworld.com/story/2058887.html

    Cardinals denied title as Eels 3-peat
    Saturday, March 8, 2014
    By Rick Curl, Sports Writer

    SWITZ CITY -- Just about anything that could go wrong for Bloomfield did in the IHSAA Class A Sectional 57 title game here Saturday night.

    The Cardinals fell behind quickly, turned the ball over at inopportune times and weren't able to control the tempo in a 63-43 loss to Clay City.

    ***

    Just two examples. Thousands of others on-line and at your local newsstand.

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    But the thing is, it IS. PCS is a way to express some of the intangibles - not all - in numbers. It's not like they are pulling these numbers out of thin air. It is perhaps not explicated well enough to distinguish between what deserves a 7.85 vs. 8.25, but it's a numbers' game nevertheless.
    Yeah... it looks like they're pulling the numbers out of the air. When Adelina, a skater known for her technical prowess but has failed to impress judges with her scores for interpretation and choreography (and skating skills, i.e. sloppy edges and posture etc), achieves basically the same score in her TES as should does her PCS, something is wrong here. Pulling the numbers out of the air seems just about as legitimate as the score she got.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    When Adelina, a skater known for her technical prowess but has failed to impress judges with her scores for interpretation and choreography (and skating skills, i.e. sloppy edges and posture etc), achieves basically the same score in her TES as should does her PCS, something is wrong here. Pulling the numbers out of the air seems just about as legitimate as the score she got.
    Not true. Adelina has been getting very high PCS for a few years now, particularly when she skates well. She has had the best PCS by a good margin of all the up-and-comers, including Gracie and Julia. Only Ashley and Akiko, along with Y-C-M, have gotten better PCS consistently.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I believe that the word "denied" implies a sense of unfairness and entitlement on the part of the one denied. In a sense, Adelina's win denied gold to everyone, not just Kim. You can't possibly argue that Kim was the sole favorite of the event and no one else was expected to be her competition.
    Capcomeback is spot on; "deny" is often used in the context of reports such as the ones cited in his/her posts. Not just in sports items but in many other contexts as well. From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

    de·ny transitive verb \di-ˈnī, dē-\
    : to say that something is not true

    : to refuse to accept or admit (something)

    : to refuse to give (something) to someone : to prevent someone from having or receiving (something)

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    Not an opinion. It is a fact that the word is used the way I'm telling you it gets used. There is no use arguing semantics here.


    1.
    http://www.northjersey.com/sports/me...again-1.732589

    Men's basketball: Rutgers denied by UConn again
    March 6, 2014
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    The Record

    Rutgers’ 42-year drought on the road against Connecticut continues.

    Shabazz Napier scored 26 points in his final home game, leading 19th-ranked UConn to a 69-63 win over Rutgers on Wednesday night to extend a Scarlet Knights’ road losing streak to the Huskies that began in 1972.
    - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/sports/me....w4XFRvlJ.dpuf


    2.
    http://www.gcdailyworld.com/story/2058887.html

    Cardinals denied title as Eels 3-peat
    Saturday, March 8, 2014
    By Rick Curl, Sports Writer

    SWITZ CITY -- Just about anything that could go wrong for Bloomfield did in the IHSAA Class A Sectional 57 title game here Saturday night.

    The Cardinals fell behind quickly, turned the ball over at inopportune times and weren't able to control the tempo in a 63-43 loss to Clay City.

    ***

    Just two examples. Thousands of others on-line and at your local newsstand.
    In your examples, there are only two competing teams playing against each other. Obviously, if one loses, the other wins. In the figure skating field, competitors are many. Can you find an example where one is denied something that went to someone else out of a field of many, not two?

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Capcomeback is spot on; "deny" is often used in the context of reports such as the ones cited in his/her posts. Not just in sports items but in many other contexts as well. From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

    de·ny transitive verb \di-ˈnī, dē-\
    : to say that something is not true

    : to refuse to accept or admit (something)

    : to refuse to give (something) to someone : to prevent someone from having or receiving (something)
    Would you say then that along with Kim, 20+ other competitors were also denied gold?

  8. #758
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Well, the Clay City Eels really did deny the Bloomfield Cardinals in Switz City. They blocked the Cardinal's shots, they stole the ball, they beat them up on the offensive glass. Adelina just skated her program.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-27-2014 at 07:26 PM.

  9. #759
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    I just think the whole "denied" something thing is cliche anyway. There are a variety of ways to say someone was beat.

    That said, it would actually be reasonable to write the headline "Yu-Na Kim denied a second gold medal" because she was the only one competitor to have one gold medal and to be gunning for OGM No. 2.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 03-27-2014 at 07:25 PM.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by capcomeback View Post
    Yeah... it looks like they're pulling the numbers out of the air. When Adelina, a skater known for her technical prowess but has failed to impress judges with her scores for interpretation and choreography (and skating skills, i.e. sloppy edges and posture etc), achieves basically the same score in her TES as should does her PCS, something is wrong here. Pulling the numbers out of the air seems just about as legitimate as the score she got.
    This doesn't change the fact that scores are about counting.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I just think the whole "denied" something thing is cliche anyway. There are a variety of ways to say someone was beat.

    That said, it would actually be reasonable to write the headline "Yu-Na Kim denied a second gold medal" because she was the only ones among the competitors to have one gold medal and to be gunning for OGM No. 2.
    Then it would be equally legitimate to say that 20+ other competitors were denied a first gold medal.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    Then it would be equally legitimate to say that 20+ other competitors were denied a first gold medal.
    Didn't say it wasn't, but the newsworthy part is whether Yuna would get a second OGM, as it would have been the first since Katarina Witt.

  13. #763
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    I think it is a question of who is doing the denying. In the headline, "Yuna Kim denied second gold medal," I think the implied denier is Fate. It just didn't work out in her favor.

    I do think there are situations where you might say that the first place finisher denied the second place finisher the crown. If the contest was expected to be a showdown between those two with no one else in serious contention. Or in the case where the up-and-coming challenger has all the momentum from the regular season going into the championship round -- but no! the grizzled champion digs deep and denies her.

    I don't think we would say that the first place guy (or the guy who finished 7th) denied the victory to the guy who finished 18th.

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think it is a question of who is doing the denying. In the headline, "Yuna Kim denied second gold medal," I think the implied denier is Fate. It just didn't work out in her favor.

    I do think there are situations where you might say that the first place finisher denied the second place finisher the crown. If the contest was expected to be a showdown between those two with no one else in serious contention. Or in the case where the up-and-coming challenger has all the momentum from the regular season going into the championship round -- but no! the grizzled champion digs deep and denies her.

    I don't think we would say that the first place guy (or the guy who finished 7th) denied the victory to the guy who finished 18th.
    Ah, nuanced discussions about writing. You sure know how to go after a writer's heart.

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    "Michael Phelps Denied of Gold"

    "Usain Bolt Denied of Gold"


    It's simply a sensational topic to have Yuna not win the gold. Gawd.
    Of course, this "denied" could've been a suggestive diction, and is used more as a tragic nuance, but whatever. No wrong with using it.

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