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Thread: The Judging Controversy Thread

  1. #3286
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    Witt and Brownings reactions were based on what they saw and not going over the protocols. The NBC team was also a bit surprised but in interviews after all agreed with the result after looking at the protocols.
    Sorry, but this is an empty argument. If I'm trying to get to the grocery store, and I SEE IT on my left as I drive by, and my smart phone app is telling me that it's another mile down the road, I am going to challenge what the smart phone app is telling me.

    The map is not the terrain. The map is an interpretation of the terrain. The terrain is the only thing that's real.

  2. #3287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing a comparison of Yuna at 2013 WC vs 2014 Olympics
    To me, Yuna's LP at 2013 worlds was magical, while her 2013 Olympics performance was merely excellent.

    Alas, there is no line in the protocols for "magical-ness." I do think, though, that Yuna's injury and subsequent loss of training time took its toll in the 2013-2014 season and the Olympics.

  3. #3288
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    If Adelina skated better she should win
    and since she clearly didnt, that is a moot point.

  4. #3289
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    Quote Originally Posted by I♥Yuna View Post
    Sorry, but this is an empty argument. If I'm trying to get to the grocery store, and I SEE IT on my left as I drive by, and my smart phone app is telling me that it's another mile down the road, I am going to challenge what the smart phone app is telling me.

    The map is not the terrain. The map is an interpretation of the terrain. The terrain is the only thing that's real.
    OK this is just wrong. The winner is determined by who accrued the most points, not whose program looked the best. Yuna's program may have been more visually appealing but it didn't earn the most points. Only by looking at the protocols one can see how everything added up.

  5. #3290
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    and since she clearly didnt, that is a moot point.
    If six to seven judges disagree with you I think "clearly" she did. But continue relying on your biased friends who feel 30-to-1 that the outcome was wrong.

  6. #3291
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    The question is, whether someone outside this forum actually cares about somewhere on forum being some 1000 pages of complaints about old results.

    Face the fact: if no one else cares, it's one more reason to keep posting here. I actually counted on this when I made my prognosis

  7. #3292
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    OK this is just wrong. The winner is determined by who accrued the most points, not whose program looked the best. Yuna's program may have been more visually appealing but it didn't earn the most points. Only by looking at the protocols one can see how everything added up.
    This circumvents the argument, though. Certainly we can see by the protocols that Adelina accrued the most points because some of the judges smothered her with +3's and 9.75s. The debate is whether these scores were fairly earned or reflective instead of a predetermined agenda on the part of the judges and technical panel. There is no check box on the protocols for the judges to say yea or nay.

  8. #3293
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    OK this is just wrong. The winner is determined by who accrued the most points, not whose program looked the best.
    How can you judge quality of composition and execution if not by looking with your eyes? It's supposed to look good.

    Yuna's program may have been more visually appealing but it didn't earn the most points.
    Then there's something wrong with the practical methods and numerical valuations and calibrations that are being used to evaluate the content and quality of the programs. That's what I'm challenging here = the scoring and judging systems. IMO, they are flawed.

    Only by looking at the protocols one can see how everything added up.
    I can see how it added up (ie, I can see the map on my phone). What I"m trying to say is that those numbers are not an accurate reflection of the value of the overall content and quality of those programs (at least, according to the standards of the people who disagree with the results).

  9. #3294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The debate is whether these scores were fairly earned or reflective instead of a predetermined agenda on the part of the judges and technical panel. There is no check box on the protocols for the judges to say yea or nay.
    Despite convincing evidence that includes hugs, leaving a press conference too early, a corrupt judge from a country that is currently anti-Russia, and extreme scrutiny of the technical elements of one skater, I'm not sold. Again, six or seven judges had to be "in on it" for this result to happen in a corrupt manner. Almost every judge had Adelina within a very close margin of Yuna, if not ahead. None of the judges looked at TEB as a score ceiling for Adelina when they were able to compare Yuna and the Russian side-by-side. Of everything presented in these 200+ pages, what are you latching on to as something resembling a conspiracy? You seem reasonable and sold on this idea so I'd like to know how this is all playing out in your head.

  10. #3295
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Despite convincing evidence that includes hugs, leaving a press conference too early, a corrupt judge from a country that is currently anti-Russia, and extreme scrutiny of the technical elements of one skater, I'm not sold. Again, six or seven judges had to be "in on it" for this result to happen in a corrupt manner. Almost every judge had Adelina within a very close margin of Yuna, if not ahead. None of the judges looked at TEB as a score ceiling for Adelina when they were able to compare Yuna and the Russian side-by-side. Of everything presented in these 200+ pages, what are you latching on to as something resembling a conspiracy? You seem reasonable and sold on this idea so I'd like to know how this is all playing out in your head.
    Are you talking to me? I am not latching on to anything. I am saying that the looking at the protocols cannot resolve the question of whether or not any of the judges or tech panel were up to no good.

    Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but this information is not revealed by the protocols.

  11. #3296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The debate is whether these scores were fairly earned or reflective instead of a predetermined agenda on the part of the judges and technical panel.
    The way I feel about the problem of corrupt judging is that it stems from a combination of 3 things 1.)the leeway they are given by ambiguous judging criteria and rules 2.) An irrational, and disorganized judging format (ie, duties of the technical panel and duties of the judges) and 3.) anonymity.

    Those three things create the perfect environment for cheating, and they need to change.

    I don't care so much about covert agendas that may or may not be pursued by the different federations, because nobody can really prove anything. It's just gossip & speculation.

  12. #3297
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    It is funny how every single page you go into since the games has drivingmissdaisy with half the posts. For someone supposably so sure of Sotnikova's win (yeah right) and so sure it isnt a controversy to people (rotfl) she/he sure wastes alot of time trying to convince and brainwash others (or himself?) of that.

  13. #3298
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    PCS saved Mao Asada from the humiliation of not qualifying for the FS. In the SP, her base value was lower than almost every other skater who qualified. Her TES was lower than every other skater who qualified.

    Base value, GOE, and PCS all matter to all skaters. Accept it. There was no philosophy of "winning for name" and no philosophy of depending just on GOE and PCS.
    Mao was #27 in TES in SP. You think her PCS should be lower than Isadora's from Brazil, Glebova's from Estonia or V. Helgesson from Sweden? It's ISU that would be humiliated when now we know how Mao skated FS. If all scores Base Value, GOE, PCS mattered to all skater fairly, Mao's PCS result in FS would be 1st, not Yuna's. But then Yuna would get bronze. Judges secure her silver medal, if you are still looking for the controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Yuna is not the only skater to try to gain points through quality, i.e.GOE. I don't think it is arrogant to strategize your programs.
    Yuna was the only OGM contender who entered the Games with #9 program of difficulty. No one did the same. Yuzu, Patrick, Adelina, Caro, pair skaters, dancers? They all challenged. Yuna didn't have a choice. She said that she did everything she could in Sochi. It was her top. She had to count on her reputation points in PCS and GOE because she couldn't skate more difficult program. She lost. This strategy lost. I see its fair game.

  14. #3299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This circumvents the argument, though. Certainly we can see by the protocols that Adelina accrued the most points because some of the judges smothered her with +3's and 9.75s. The debate is whether these scores were fairly earned or reflective instead of a predetermined agenda on the part of the judges and technical panel. There is no check box on the protocols for the judges to say yea or nay.
    Agreed. While the protocols show how many points each skater has been awarded in terms of the elements they performed (BV+GOE=TES) and the PCS they received, it doesn't tell us why they were given that certain GOE or PCS. Whether it was fairly awarded, casual viewers like us wouldn't understand. The IJS was implemented to reduce scoring subjectivity, but how can we say judges are being objective when they score for instance, Adelina's 3F with +1.50 GOE versus Yuna's 3F with +1.20 GOE versus Kostner's 3F with +1.20 GOE versus Julia's 3F with +1.30 GOE. Personally I thought Adelina and Julia were overscored in this instance, among others.

  15. #3300
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    I thought Adelina's triple flip being deemed better than Kim's was funny enough but Julia's being deemed better than both Kim's and Kostner's takes the cake. I didnt even bother looking at Julia's protocals, but it wouldnt surprise me if her triple flutz that was landed probably got more points than Yu Na's too, lol!

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