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Thread: The Judging Controversy Thread

  1. #3886
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    ^I'm more than willing to be enlightened. Please show me where my logic fails.

  2. #3887
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    I am sure Putin did not interfere - his agenda is surely too busy for that and the matter is too small. Yes, he noted Yulia. But again she has become a national icon and has raised overall interest to FS in Russia dramatically irrespectively to Putin. I wish he had bribed hockey judges, though, who set the wrong course for our team with this notorious call at the high point of our match with USA.

    And he attended many events - so with idea to bribe judges everywhere, I guess?
    Did you know that Putin attended ladies team event? He also attended ladies free skating and watched the whole game sitting next to Cinquanta. And yeah, I am sure his agenda was too busy for attending these event right? Putin surely affected this ladies figure skating and russia really needed a gold medal after losing men's hockey against usa. But I can understand those judges' decision, because they might have been killed if they rebel. But if you listen to him, putin and isu would award them. You really don't have any idea how cruel and greedy Putin is. You don't have to cover for his ***, because the whole world knows that he is a corrupted dictator and that those results in Sochi Olympic especially in figure skating was extremely unfair.

  3. #3888
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ Personally, I don't think President Putin would have actually killed the figure skating judges. After all, he didn't kill the referee who took away the potential game-winning goal against U.S. in hockey.

  4. #3889
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    To my amateurish view the main difference lies in speed. Yulia finishes with a good tempo - Yuna almost stops. The difficulty is also quite different. Compared their recent Sps.
    Do you mean deceleration by "finish" and "stops"? Of course skaters have to stop spinning at some point. I am not certain of what you are referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    Rotation 1: Yulia: 16 revolutions - 4 elements with the amazing Billman, Yuna: also 16 revolutions - 4 elements but no Billman and very slow at the end. Rotation 2 Yulia: 25 revolutions - 5 elements, Yuna 22 revolutions - 3 elements - this time her elements were very basic and yes no speed. Rotation 3: Yulia: 35 revolutions - 5 elements with the mind-boggling final i-spin, Yuna: 27 revolutions - 6 elements. Her flying-sit spin was nice and, I guess, quite difficult. But the i-spin was lamentable.
    I think you have levels (i.e. difficulty) in mind when I was talking about quality of spins. (of all 3 types) The number of revolutions are primarily counted for level features. In other words, more than x revolutions in position y -> extra +1 level, etc. Most skaters count revolutions during their spins: One, two, three,... and so on. If a level feature requires 5 revolutions while maintaining a certain position, the skater will try to spin 6~7 times to be on the safe side unless she is out of sync and chasing the music. But for the most part, the number of revolution and quality of the spins are different matters. "For the most part," because doing way more revolutions than is required is indeed one bullet point under GOE guidelines, iirc. Kudos to Yulia for doing that but there are more to the quality of spins than the number of revolutions.

    As for biellmann, Yuna reportedly gave up on it due to injury/pain thus she loses a level feature and she knows it. That does not make her spins bad - it's something she cannot/does not do due to its difficulty. Adelina has her signature spin that no one else does. Yuna also does a belly-up camel that I haven't seen anyone else doing. They all contribute to gaining levels.

    In short, the number of revolution is a small part when judging "quality" of the spins. It rather goes to "difficulty" part, i.e. levels. A skater can do unstable spins many revolutions over, and she may get the level but she won't get quality points. Plus, in Yulia's case that only applies to her upright spins, not camel and sit spins.

    If you recall my earlier post (#3878),

    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2
    if you look at them from the COP point of view, upright spin is only one third of the equation. The other two thirds are camel spins and sit spins (both with flying variants), and she is not very special on those. If I go by with her Olympic performance, I say those two other types of spins were rather poorly performed by her. Specifically: postures, shaky axis (balance), and traveling.
    Edit: Found Yulia's FS in the Olympics. To me her camel spins and sit spins are average at best, and I don't see the exceedingly high number of revolutions in them, either. Only in upright positions she can pull off those extra revolutions, it seems.

    Yuna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OZM-AfZkas (1:30 Camel, 2:00 Layback, 3:00 Combination including sit spins)
    Yulia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBQhSTEvGZ0 (0:55 Camel, 3:15 Layback, 3:50 Combination including sit spins)

    Again, Yulia's I-spin is phenomenal. I can understand that it's one thing that casual viewers remember after watching her performance. And there is absolutely nothing wrong about it. But if you were to judge all of her spins by the book, her overall spin performance is merely average, IMO.

    Your thoughts?

    P.S. 3 types of spins -> Upright, Camel, Sit

  5. #3890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ Personally, I don't think President Putin would have actually killed the figure skating judges. After all, he didn't kill the referee who took away the potential game-winning goal against U.S. in hockey.
    It's an exaggeration, but Putin would have pressured them and bribed them with money.

  6. #3891
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    Did you know that Putin attended ladies team event? He also attended ladies free skating and watched the whole game sitting next to Cinquanta. And yeah, I am sure his agenda was too busy for attending these event right? Putin surely affected this ladies figure skating and russia really needed a gold medal after losing men's hockey against usa. But I can understand those judges' decision, because they might have been killed if they rebel. But if you listen to him, putin and isu would award them. You really don't have any idea how cruel and greedy Putin is. You don't have to cover for his ***, because the whole world knows that he is a corrupted dictator and that those results in Sochi Olympic especially in figure skating was extremely unfair.
    This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this forum so far. Wait... No, actually it's beyond ridiculous.

  7. #3892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow63 View Post
    This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this forum so far. Wait... No, actually it's beyond ridiculous.
    I understand how much you love putin. Indeed I find it more ridiculous at 107% of turnout in Putin's election.

  8. #3893
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    I understand how much you love putin. Indeed I find it more ridiculous at 107% of turnout in Putin's election.
    No you don't since I dislike him a lot at best. I actually didn't voted for him, so I'm not in this 107%
    But what you said about killing judges is just blind accusation and has nothing to do with reality.


    Edit: Oh ****. Now KGB is going to kill me. AAAaaaaa!!! I need to change my gender and name, and run from the country asap. The dictator is going to kill me now
    Seriously guys, you're amazing.

  9. #3894
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Do not feed the troll!!

  10. #3895
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    While digging, I've found a bird's-eye view of Adelina's Sochi FS. In the past I only had a link to a side-by-side with Yuna's FS.

    Enjoy.

    Adelina Sotnikova: Rondo Capriccioso
    Yuna Kim: Adios Nonino (note how long she had to wait )

  11. #3896
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    FYI...if you go to here http://www.nbcolympics.com/search/site/Yuna%20Kim you can watch all of Yuna's performances. If you click the search Icon you can watch every skater by searching their name. No need to watch Birdseye view.

  12. #3897
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    While digging, I've found a bird's-eye view of Adelina's Sochi FS. In the past I only had a link to a side-by-side with Yuna's FS.

    Enjoy.

    Adelina Sotnikova: Rondo Capriccioso
    Yuna Kim: Adios Nonino (note how long she had to wait )
    Clearly ice coverage makes up for fewer jumps, worse spins and fewer transitions.

  13. #3898
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    This thread has resorted to nonsense. Putin had decided to rig the results after the hockey loss even though it was planned months in advance. Yulia has worse spins than Yuna. Adelina is best friends with Putin and that is why she won which doesn't contradict the hockey loss theory In any way at all. DMD is Bill Clinton's best friend. I am Kwans favorite too. Anyone who disagrees is ignorant..,see the post up top. I'm "A"!!!

  14. #3899
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    While digging, I've found a bird's-eye view of Adelina's Sochi FS. In the past I only had a link to a side-by-side with Yuna's FS.

    Enjoy.

    Adelina Sotnikova: Rondo Capriccioso
    Yuna Kim: Adios Nonino
    I clearly can see the difference of ice coverage between yuna and adelina. The speed of yuna was outstanding. And what I was most bothered is the camera works. Look at those Russian camera shooting from the above and with poor angles for only yuna. It affects the audience how they see it through those cameras. Furthermore, I don't understand those Russian crowd screaming "rossia rossia" not "sotnikova sotnikova" when figure skating is more about individual. I am really disappointed at those Russian crowds. And did you guys see the delayed time prior to yuna's skating? She stood on the ice for like 4 minuates. This is like 2times more than the other skaters. I just want to give her utmost respect for performing clean programs on those harsh conditions.

    You will see the difference in camera angles.
    nbc- nbc's own camera
    http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/...s_keyword=xoQk
    cbc- russian camera
    http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/...s_keyword=xoQk

    Another one that shows the angles of camera shooting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n91tUEvglpA

  15. #3900
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuon_alpinus View Post
    I just want to give her utmost respect for performing clean programs on those harsh conditions.


    Against Lakernik & Co.'s wishful thinking. She is truly the Queen.

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