Page 262 of 271 FirstFirst ... 162 212 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 LastLast
Results 3,916 to 3,930 of 4051

Thread: The Judging Controversy Thread

  1. #3916
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    And to my taste, contortionist gymnastic positions are not pleasing at all. Frankly I would watch Yuna or Mao do the I-spin any day over Yulia, just because their sophisticated figures make it very pleasing to the eye, even without the crazy extension. Yulia's spin is all about sheer flexibility, whereas the camel spin Yuna does requires insane balance on the blade. Since this is figure skating and not gymnastics, I'll take the latter any day.
    It's always good to have the diversity of tastes and opinions, otherwise the life would be boring. The key thing is not to push personal opinions as the ultimate truth. And let the judges decide. If there are better and more objective procedures coming, I am all for it. But for the time being let the bitterness not darken the mind. I am personally longing for the next season - it's going to be very interesting. And I believe that Adelina will prove that she has come to stay.

  2. #3917
    Bored
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Part 1 -> I want transparent judging and small reforms to the selection process of judges. I'm all for that. To be honest though unless you ban all federations from judging(won't happen) it doesnt really matter if its the president of the federation or a former coach within. They are all going to prefer the style of skating they grew up around and I don't necessarily even see a problem with that---if the judging is transparent.

    Part 2 -> I'm not for people who don't know the basics of how a spin is scored/executed or how to interpret GOE bullets bringing in slander against a skater or world leader based on nothing. That is borderline bigotry to me! Sure it's suspicious that judges hug skaters. Sure it's suspicious that VP's are selected to judge at Olympic events. But people taking pictures of Putin and Adelina and saying..."see there.. I told you so" is ridiculous. They are poisoning the well. The discussion should start to involve other events too. Only using Sochi as an example to fix the process is very impractical. IMO we should pick random events and study the judging. The true heart of the sport. Use Sochi as the outlier it is and judge the sport as a whole.

    Part 3 -> My prediction..nothing will happen because the KSU either won't do anything or they will look foolish by only focusing on Yuna vs Adelina and not the entire judging process.

    Part 4 -> Is this a fair post? I feel like I just made a point or two and didn't use any circumstantial venomous slander.
    I took the freedom to edit your post or order to show which part of my long gkelly style answer belongs where.

    Part 1
    This is a realistic wish. I’d say this is exactly what might happen if Cinquanta leaves before term. Take it as my prediction.

    Part 2
    I’m not sure what you mean saying “I’m not for people who…” but I hope there’s no unrealistic wish behind it. Sports go hand-in-hand with politics and accordingly with world leaders who take the headlines for whatever reason. This is not going away. Of course, I realize that sometimes these passions result from little knowledge or a cultural misunderstanding but if we consider ourselves wise we can always explain things. Just think that you make the world better every time you do

    Part 3
    Well, Korea is a small country. Russia is happy. Japan is happy. US and Canada have divided opinion. For the rest of the world, figure skating is just not worth it. Nothing should happen unless the divided opinion in US and Canada takes a turn. After Dick Button’s article, I nearly started to believe it’s realistically possible. For US and Canada, it’s all about money. This is one [less important] thing if the current judging system is preventing a particular athlete from getting an OGM; if it’s preventing the whole organization from getting more money, it’s a completely different matter.

    Part 4
    It depends if you want to get one or two reasonable answers or one or two pages of slur




    @AliceInWonderland:
    Sorry, I have to disappoint you! Unfortunately, I’m always part serious when I write unserious stuff

  3. #3918
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    4,023
    Fantastic response. I appreciate the gkelly style answer too. You can sum up my "agenda" as I'm quite often accused of having in a simple phrase. Realistic discussion with fairness as the base. I've stated over and over that the judging process doesn't need a drastic overhaul. All we need is for the judges to explain their marks. I think that is fair. For example on any protocol sheet you would see this

    3lz-3t +1 GOE bullets satisfied(1,6) notes: surprisingly fast set up and great flow throughout sequence with nice flow out.

    Even if we disagree we at least see why the judge awarded bullets to the jump. If we notice a bullet being abused the ISU could update the language accordingly upon request.

  4. #3919
    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    5,140
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    And to my taste, contortionist gymnastic positions are not pleasing at all. Frankly I would watch Yuna or Mao do the I-spin any day over Yulia, just because their sophisticated figures make it very pleasing to the eye, even without the crazy extension. Yulia's spin is all about sheer flexibility, whereas the camel spin Yuna does requires insane balance on the blade. Since this is figure skating and not gymnastics, I'll take the latter any day.
    Don't worry, you might have the chance to vote for your fav. spin&skater, and decide who should win.
    Be patient, Cinquanta is thinking about that too.

    I would love to see that happening, at least for one Olympic.
    After the result we will have people fighting with each other.
    That should make figure skating "popular" enough.

  5. #3920
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Fantastic response. I appreciate the gkelly style answer too. You can sum up my "agenda" as I'm quite often accused of having in a simple phrase. Realistic discussion with fairness as the base. I've stated over and over that the judging process doesn't need a drastic overhaul. All we need is for the judges to explain their marks. I think that is fair. For example on any protocol sheet you would see this

    3lz-3t +1 GOE bullets satisfied(1,6) notes: surprisingly fast set up and great flow throughout sequence with nice flow out.

    Even if we disagree we at least see why the judge awarded bullets to the jump. If we notice a bullet being abused the ISU could update the language accordingly upon request.
    Very good suggestions. I would totally vote for you as head of ISU

  6. #3921
    Yuzulia & Ruslena Team Alba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    5,140
    Yuna also does a belly-up camel that I haven't seen anyone else doing
    Skaters should things they're able to do, and use all their advantages.
    There are skaters who are more flexible, those who are more powerful or elegant. Each to their own.
    Mao does a level4 spin and so does Yulia, but they're different.
    Amen to that!

  7. #3922
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Ice View Post
    And to my taste, contortionist gymnastic positions are not pleasing at all. Frankly I would watch Yuna or Mao do the I-spin any day over Yulia, just because their sophisticated figures make it very pleasing to the eye, even without the crazy extension. Yulia's spin is all about sheer flexibility, whereas the camel spin Yuna does requires insane balance on the blade. Since this is figure skating and not gymnastics, I'll take the latter any day.
    I find ALL I-spins ugly but if you have to do it, achieving a completely vertical body line, in my opinion, is more aesthetically pleasing, then a sort-of Y spin where skaters try to do an I-spin but it's clear they don't have the flexibility to achieve a complete I-line.

  8. #3923
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    22
    To people who say that Sot or Lip's program are technically stronger than Yuna’s, please read this : http://jwong224.blogspot.kr/

    For those who argued that Adelina’s programs are technically stronger than Yuna’s, score analysis shows that the combined BV of her programs are only 2.94 points higher than Yuna’s. This gap includes the inexplicable downgrades of Yuna’s step sequence elements from level 4 to level 3 by the Russian technical controller in both of her programs. These downgrades caused her BV to be reduced by a total of 1.2 points. The gap could have been reduced to at most 1.74 points without even needing to go into another argument about how Adelina's step sequences were all graded level 4 though they were obvious inferior to Yuna’s.

  9. #3924
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    4,023
    Quote Originally Posted by fridakalo View Post
    To people who say that Sot or Lip's program are technically stronger than Yuna’s, please read this : http://jwong224.blogspot.kr/

    For those who argued that Adelina’s programs are technically stronger than Yuna’s, score analysis shows that the combined BV of her programs are only 2.94 points higher than Yuna’s. This gap includes the inexplicable downgrades of Yuna’s step sequence elements from level 4 to level 3 by the Russian technical controller in both of her programs. These downgrades caused her BV to be reduced by a total of 1.2 points. The gap could have been reduced to at most 1.74 points without even needing to go into another argument about how Adelina's step sequences were all graded level 4 though they were obvious inferior to Yuna’s.
    Who is saying this about the programs? Could you possibly repost an example. I think Yuna's program was exquisite btw

  10. #3925
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    22
    In this : http://jwong224.blogspot.kr/

    As for the free skate, Yuna skated to a tango piece "Adios Nonino". This program is very challenging because it requires many movements and diverse emotions with no rest point in any part of the program in order keep up with the fast tempo of the music. Her performance was again flawless and phenomenal. It looks effortless though it is very difficult and energy demanding. On the other hand, Adelina had several obvious mistakes such as a two-foot landing and a step-out during a combination jump. She also had a wrong entry into her first jumping pass, the triple lutz-triple toe, which the mistake is commonly referred as the “wrong edge”. Surprisingly, the Russian technical controller did not address this mistake and no point was deducted as a result. Nevertheless, Adelina's GOE is almost 2 points higher than Yuna’s while the PCS again puts them in a virtual tie. Some argued that Adelina brought a lot of energy on the ice and had great connection with the audience. However, waving to the audience and to the judges during the program should not contribute to adding any points to the artistry score.

    One of the major differences between these two skaters is that Yuna makes her difficult program looks effortless while Adelina obviously makes hers looks exhausting. Besides, Yuna has demonstrated that her quality of skating, jumping technique, poise and elegance are a class of her own. She is a complete skater with rare qualities which many skating fans have nicknamed her “Queen Yuna“. Also, she is already considered as a figure skating legend at the time when she won the gold at the last Vancouver Olympics in 2010. In general, Adelina is a great skater with a lot of potential. She skated very well and delivered two brilliant programs to her home crowd at Sochi. However, the executions of her performances show she is not in the same caliber as Yuna. Skating legends such as Kurt Browning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHrgxY7S-Bo) and Katarina Witt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV4sfY2ou_I) have already explained their differences very professionally which you could review them by following the links.
    Without going into the argument whether Yuna Kim was underscored in both her Short Program and Free Skate, it is clear that Adelina Sotnikova was extremely over scored. Though figure skating is a subjective sport, the results are completely outrageous. Sonia Bianchetti Garbato, a former Olympic figure skating judge and a top-ranked skating official, has described the judging at the ladies’ event as “disgraceful and again an embarrassment for the sport”. She pointed out that “In no way could Adelina Sotnikova be placed ahead of Yuna Kim and perhaps also Carolina Kostner.” Sonia clearly stated that “no fair judge with a minimum of competence on how to evaluate the Program Components could have awarded to Adelina higher marks in choreography, performance/execution, and interpretation of music.” Her analysis regarding the judging scandal can be viewed in the following link: http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_sochi2014.html.

  11. #3926
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    4,023
    I meant..who was saying that Yuna's programs are inferior? You started off by saying for those of you claiming Sot and Lip had technically stronger programs. Can you please post who is saying that? Jwong is too one sided for me sorry. The truth is somewhere in the middle of that opinion piece/blog IMHO. I prefer fair analysis.....just like my judging.

    The whole being a legend part made me l so thanks for that.

  12. #3927
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I meant..who was saying that Yuna's programs are inferior? Can you please post that? Jwong is too one sided for me sorry. The truth is somewhere in the middle of that opinion piece/blog IMHO.
    What is one sided? She is Canadian figureskating blogger. even if JoannaWong isn't famous sports columnist, she said objectively.
    The gap at most i.44 or 1.74 points could be no problem, if judges would give right GOE points of Sot's Flutz, two-feet landing, under-rotated 3toe

  13. #3928
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    4,023
    1)
    However, waving to the audience and to the judges during the program should not contribute to adding any points to the artistry score.
    She just basically disqualified herself. That is choreography and worthy of points to the PCS. While I agree its silly choreo its no more silly than Caro's wiggling hips or Plushenko mean mugging is it. Not my thing but choreo non the less.

    2)
    . Though figure skating is a subjective sport, the results are completely outrageous. Sonia Bianchetti Garbato, a former Olympic figure skating judge and a top-ranked skating official, has described the judging at the ladies’ event as “disgraceful and again an embarrassment for the sport”.
    one sided OPINION

    3)
    One of the major differences between these two skaters is that Yuna makes her difficult program looks effortless while Adelina obviously makes hers looks exhausting.
    Using her own logic please explain how this is reflected in the PCS. I've never seen a exhausting looking program deduction.

    4)
    She is a complete skater with rare qualities which many skating fans have nicknamed her “Queen Yuna
    Kinda shows bias. I'm inclined to agree here as a fan of Kim Yuna but it seems silly to put that into a "fair" statement. She really never shows Adelina the same respect exactly. Maybe a forced "well she skated her programs well at home" kinda thing. But she's not a legend or worthy of equal consideration.

  14. #3929
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,695
    But one OGM does not a legend make, no? Sotnikova just isn't in the same league as Kim or Asada at this point. With time, maybe she could get there but as it stands now, she's lacking in body of work (and time in).

  15. #3930
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    4,023
    ^while I agree!! It can't be reflected in the scores this way really. They all still have to perform. I mean legends are beatable. I just don't dig on opinions that cloud and undermine the facts. Is that a more fair way to say it. I personally score the whole thing as a toss up. I can see three victory stories. I just don't think that is a ridiculous thing to say.

Page 262 of 271 FirstFirst ... 162 212 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •