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Thread: The Judging Controversy Thread

  1. #3931
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    2) one sided OPINION[/QUOTE]

    In your theory, all is one sided. but many legendary figure skating members like DickButton, Sonia Bianchetti, Kurt Browning, Katarina Witt, Robin Cousins, Boitano and many judges and tech panels http://www.insideskating.net/2014/03...stake-was-made say Sochi judging Scandal

  2. #3932
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    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    I meant that in technical terms overall RPM of Yuna is lower than that of Yulia and this is especially visible towards the end of each rotation series, well, it's deceleration. For example, they have similar spin types in the first rotaion series in SP and both do 16 revolutions. But it takes Yuna 12 seconds to complete, and Yulia only 9: just measured.

    In terms of difficulty you could take a look at their second series in SP. They both do upright spins. But again, if my eyes do not betray me, all Yuna's positions are very classical - these types of spins existed when I skated: in the seventies. Yulia on the other hand does the Biellmann the way nobody else does (as far as I can remember Biellmann in principle was a privilige of few before the 90s). I understand that Yuna injured her back but it is just about comparing two skaters at the specific moment of time. Don't know what happens to Yulia in the future and whether she will be able to keep her flexibility in the years to come. God helps her.
    Quote Originally Posted by samkrut@mail.ru View Post
    True, but to my taste it's not aesthetically pleasing.
    I have to say I am slightly disappointed because you chose not to answer my main points, intentionally or not.

    I have given that Yulia's upright spins are superior to Yuna's. She is faster (more RPM as you say), does more revolutions, and does Biellmann which Yuna no longer does. Those are things that I have already conceded in my previous posts. And by your own admission, one could say Yuna's unique camel and Yulia's unique Biellmann are a wash depending on the beholders.

    Then you simply avoided my main contention only to repeat what we already agree on. (with so many words.. ) I don't presume to know why, but I won't pursue your opinion on this topic any further.

  3. #3933
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    I have to say I am slightly disappointed because you chose not to answer my main points, intentionally or not.
    Sorry, but I have little to say. The first 2 rotation series in SP I already compared. I see no Yuns's advantages in the camel - both of them perform quite well - but it is standard. I understand, that your main question related to the third series of SP (I might later compare side by side their FS rotations). Well, I see better stretch in the sit position for Yulia, very convincing broken-leg spin, higher speed, and no off-balance. The only her drawback was the off-center move. But it only started with the i-spin. I could assume that the reason is the very high speed of rotation (well above 2 per second, I guess) which is much more difficult to control than all other spins. And in the world she sort of overcame this.

  4. #3934
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    Quote Originally Posted by fridakalo View Post
    2) one sided OPINION

    In your theory, all is one sided. but many legendary figure skating members like DickButton, Sonia Bianchetti, Kurt Browning, Katarina Witt, Robin Cousins, Boitano and many judges and tech panels http://www.insideskating.net/2014/03...stake-was-made say Sochi judging Scandal
    Look, I'm not saying Adelina should have won or anything along those lines. I was simply under the impression that you were claiming that me or some fellow posters had been claiming that Adelina and Yulia had technically more impressive programs. You can see why when you look at your post below.

    To people who say that Sot or Lip's program are technically stronger than Yuna’s, please read this : http://jwong224.blogspot.kr/
    So I was merely trying to figure out who was saying that Yuna's program wasn't as difficult. Somehow you got me disputing some blog when I was instead trying to discuss the judging and ways to address and improve it. To be clear....Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Right or wrong when people say things like "embarrassing" and "outrageous" then I tend to tune them out and instead look for a more reasonable source that isn't so over the top. I really don't see anything offensive by that. That is my one sided opinion.

    The only reason I even started posting over here again was because I kept seeing posts go by on the "what's new section" which shows all new posts. Some of them were making quite outlandish claims against Putin and using completely baseless claims against him and Russians. I also noticed Yulia's spins were being brought in which is something I'm quite familiar with. Some days I am much more irritable than others...,I was quite irritable yesterday and apologize if I've upset you in any way. Sorry.

  5. #3935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    So I was merely trying to figure out who was saying that Yuna's program wasn't as difficult.
    I know difference between You & I, as I knows about figure skating
    technical difficulties is not BV, but real execution
    accoridng to technical score,Sotnikova's long program's BV is difficult than Yuna Kim. But she didn't do it well. - Unstable landing(Two-feet landing), Flutz jump(cheating lutz jump by using inside edge(must be judged Wrong edge), Under-rotation, step-level..
    Then Yuna Kim's short program was more difficult than Sotnikova . And the score was almost same. How do you explain this based on your 'difficult program' theory? Yuna Kim didn't make a mistake. (long&short program) And what about Mao Asada? She did 3A and triple combo in her FS) Should she won the free program? No,
    Figure skating is not Jumping competetion. In terms of jumps, the russian's technic is coarse though.
    The one thing you have to know is that a lot of successive gold medalist won the competition without many jumps than silver medalist. The Important thing is not the quantity but the quality of jump!

  6. #3936
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    We just aren't on the same page. You seem to be under the impression that I think Adelina should have won or something. It seemed pretty close to me. Just because I think Yuna is one of the best ever doesn't mean I don't think she looked beatable .

  7. #3937
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    Quote Originally Posted by fridakalo View Post
    I know difference between You & I, as I knows about figure skating
    technical difficulties is not BV, but real execution
    accoridng to technical score,Sotnikova's long program's BV is difficult than Yuna Kim. But she didn't do it well. - Unstable landing(Two-feet landing), Flutz jump(cheating lutz jump by using inside edge(must be judged Wrong edge), Under-rotation, step-level..
    Then Yuna Kim's short program was more difficult than Sotnikova . And the score was almost same. How do you explain this based on your 'difficult program' theory? Yuna Kim didn't make a mistake. (long&short program) And what about Mao Asada? She did 3A and triple combo in her FS) Should she won the free program? No,
    Figure skating is not Jumping competetion. In terms of jumps, the russian's technic is coarse though.
    The one thing you have to know is that a lot of successive gold medalist won the competition without many jumps than silver medalist. The Important thing is not the quantity but the quality of jump!
    Gee, maybe you should write your own rulebook and decide which things would be important in your brand new sport.

  8. #3938
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    Question Fabricated articles from New York Times

    This articles was fabricated and manipulated to justify the victory of Sotnikova over Yuna Kim. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...e-skating.html

    However, the article is flawed in several ways.

    1. Their comparison of base value should not be including Goe.
    2. They distorted the composition picture to make Sotnikova a better skater.
    3. They don't discuss other technical aspects such as wrong edges, under-rotation, two-footed landing, transitions, step sequence, ice coverage, choreography, interpretation, and etc.

    If you're curious about composite images, please see these videos.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWmXsE2k1w
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBiKiV60ja8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOXQWv0nCaY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVvRd4WSVRQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDpmXzsLo_w

    What do you guys think of this? Why would NYT as well as NBC do such a fraudulent things like this?

  9. #3939
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    We really needed a thread where we can discuss Adelina vs Yuna. It is what GS has been lacking.

  10. #3940
    Yulia forver! I'm on team dumped Ice Dance. Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    We really needed a thread where we can discuss Adelina vs Yuna. It is what GS has been lacking.


    This subject is becoming a complete joke.

  11. #3941
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    cuon_alpinus,
    Calm down already.
    We get your opinion. Sotnikova had wrong edges, under-rotations, two-footed landings, awful transitions, terrible step sequence, pathetic ice coverage, no choreography, poor interpretation etc. Kim on the other hand was perfect.

    NYT obviously love Russia so much that they did 'such a fraudulent things like this'. Now get over it and enjoy FS.

  12. #3942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow63 View Post
    cuon_alpinus,
    Calm down already.
    We get your opinion. Sotnikova had wrong edges, under-rotations, two-footed landings, awful transitions, terrible step sequence, pathetic ice coverage, no choreography, poor interpretation etc. Kim on the other hand was perfect. NYT obviously love Russia so much that they did 'such a fraudulent things like this'. Now get over it and enjoy FS.
    So that part of your quote was not opinions. Those are the cold, hard facts.

    Anyway, we all know the judging in Sochi was ridiculous, so it's not like anyone should be losing sleep over the result, really. I think if the majority of people actually believed Adelina was a great skater and her programs were up to par with her competition, then there would be a lot more reason for people who know skating to be outraged. The fact is, pretty much everyone who actually knows skating knows the results in Sochi were laughable, so regardless of Adelina's win, it's not like most experts and skating fans have been fooled into believing the right skater won that night in Sochi.

    We've just accepted that there was a political game going on behind the scenes that swayed the final results in a favorable direction for certain skaters and that it's more important that the best skaters did their best in spite of the corruption that was happening behind the scenes.

    While Yuna, Mao, Carolina, etc. will be remembered as icons of our sport, it is highly unlikely Adelina will be remembered as anything other than the girl whose PCS jumped 20 points in a matter of months.

  13. #3943
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    Quote Originally Posted by gettinglow View Post
    So that part of your quote was not opinions. Those are the cold, hard facts.

    Anyway, we all know the judging in Sochi was ridiculous, so it's not like anyone should be losing sleep over the result, really. I think if the majority of people actually believed Adelina was a great skater and her programs were up to par with her competition, then there would be a lot more reason for people who know skating to be outraged. The fact is, pretty much everyone who actually knows skating knows the results in Sochi were laughable, so regardless of Adelina's win, it's not like most experts and skating fans have been fooled into believing the right skater won that night in Sochi.

    We've just accepted that there was a political game going on behind the scenes that swayed the final results in a favorable direction for certain skaters and that it's more important that the best skaters did their best in spite of the corruption that was happening behind the scenes.

    While Yuna, Mao, Carolina, etc. will be remembered as icons of our sport, it is highly unlikely Adelina will be remembered as anything other than the girl whose PCS jumped 20 points in a matter of months.
    Sure, calm down now. And I'm glad you know the future of Adelina Sotnikova.

    /Endofthread

  14. #3944
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    Is Sotnikova likely to continue competing?

  15. #3945
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    So whos behind the conspiracy to judge Kostner so high in Sochi and Worlds?

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