The Judging Controversy Thread | Page 54 | Golden Skate

The Judging Controversy Thread

verysmuchso

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
I was told that one of the tech caller, Olga Baranova, is Sotnikova's former coach as well. One big family really.
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
She received 200+ points for 2 very flawed (generously speaking) programs. Of course she was also incorrectly judged, most likely intentionally. Her scores actually went up from her team game performances - and people thought her team game scores were unjustifiable. How about that.

Actually her scores went down, rightly, from the team event. SP Team Event 72.90(not sure about the decimal places): Clean jumps of highest difficulty, great spins, good footwork, and good skating in between the elements. Personally I would have been happier if her score was a bit lower, however when you look at her previously best performed SP she got 70 points and if you compare that to Carolina's SP, much lower technical difficulty, but with an incredible skate got 69 points. Basically each one had their score inflated by about two points. I would have hoped that her PCS would be about one point lower, so Carolina would be a few points ahead of her on that and then Yulia would have still rightly won on technical difficulty. Then in the SP she scored 65.23 points. The program until the triple flip was nearly identical so I see her scores being completely fair. On that element, when you take into account the -1 deduction, she went from getting 6.53 for it to getting 0.08. Then that fall affected first the final two spins(I'm glad she got the split position centered) resulting in lower GOE and also the overall quality resulting in slightly lower PCS. From what I've read of ISU criteria and been told PCS is only supposed to be affected in a huge way if the mistake/fall ruins the program, since a fall is punished by losing the majority of points from the element and GOE. In this case the fall was in the last minute of the program so I don't think her score should have dropped more. She lost 6.50 points on the flip and lost over a point between GOE on the final spins and her PCS going down. Her score was over 7,50 points lower than before with a single fall. That's more than fair.

The same thing happened in the LP, at least technically. A clean performance such as SC, Euros, and TE would have had her TES score at 71 points instead of 66 points. For PCS though I would have had her 2.20 points lower. Still ahead of Mao. If you want to be harsher though lower her PCS by 7 points and she's behind Mao but still ahead of Ashley.

After having read everything, I do think it's insane that Adelina's previous best went up by 22 points, and that she beat two others who skated impressively by over 5 points.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
The tech panels level calls on step sequences were crucial. As pointed out many times, they gave level 4 for Adelina in SP and no one else received level 4 in SP.

Once the picture got clearer, they gave level 4 StSq to all top 4 ladies in FS, except for Yuna Kim, who receive level 3 for her step sequences in both the SP and the FS.

This is inexplicable because Yuna had received level 4 for her steps throughout last season and this season. If you count in GOE's there is a 5.0 point difference right there.

Yuna should have received at least 4~5 points more than Adelina in SP, period.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Julia's PCS for her FS went up from 69.82 in the team event to 70.06 in the individual. Her SP PCS dropped from 33.51 to 33.08. Both sets of numbers are inflated, by about 3 points for the SP and by about 6 points for the FS. She once again was not called for her 3flutz-3T which while not as blatant as Adelina's is still a flutz. So that's 9 points down total on PCS, 2.2 points down if not more on TES. She'd finish with 188 points, below Mao Asada by 8 points (and Mao as discussed elsewhere was underscored for her FS).
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
The fact that Yulia's 2 very flawed (generously speaking) programs garnered 200+ points is all you need to know that this judging was hell bent on putting Russians on the podium by any means necessary. For gold, all they needed was one lady who stayed on her feet and Adelina delivered on that front. Yuna, Carolina, Mao, etc., had only a long shot even before the event took place.
 

CarneAsada

Medalist
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
The fact that Yulia's 2 very flawed (generously speaking) programs garnered 200+ points is all you need to know that this judging was hell bent on putting Russians on the podium by any means necessary. For gold, all they needed was one lady who stayed on her feet and Adelina delivered on that front. Yuna, Carolina, Mao, etc., had only a long shot even before the event took place.
Seriously. Mao, Carolina, and Yuna have never scored over 200 with two falls and a big stepout.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Don't forget about the outrageous PCS boost of two Russian ladies throughout the Euro and the Games. Check the judging panels - they are out there and you can search.

http://i.imgur.com/IRrRteJ.png

It's the most outrageous inflation in PCS history for sure. I now officially (in my own world) dispute the legitimacy of Adelina's gold medal. I will no longer refer to her as an Olympic gold medalist.
 

gds102

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Seriously. Mao, Carolina, and Yuna have never scored over 200 with two falls and a big stepout.

Exactly. People will remember (or will not remember at all) this Olympics as the one of the most controversial, corrupted and absurd one.
 

vegarin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Seriously. Mao, Carolina, and Yuna have never scored over 200 with two falls and a big stepout.

Seriously. It's ridiculous how transparent it is, and yet ISU's trying to spin the stories against the backlash, trying to feed the public total BS. It's just upsetting to read some of them.

But maybe I shouldn't be so upset. It's not as if this could really be forgotten, because, face it, it was way too transparent. They completely went overboard to ensure the medals. Maybe ISU's attempt to swep this under the rug would be successful and media would eventually lose interest, but it's not as if we don't have the recordings of the performances from the Olympics and the protocols. We all have access to historical scores and performances and score progressions. Anyone who knows anything about the figure skating can figure what's what.
 

Ophelia

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Seriously. It's ridiculous how transparent it is, and yet ISU's trying to spin the stories against the backlash, trying to feed the public total BS. It's just upsetting to read some of them.

But maybe I shouldn't be so upset. It's not as if this could really be forgotten, because, face it, it was way too transparent. They completely went overboard to ensure the medals. Maybe ISU's attempt to swep this under the rug would be successful and media would eventually lose interest, but it's not as if we don't have the recordings of the performances from the Olympics and the protocols. We all have access to historical scores and performances and score progressions. Anyone who knows anything about the figure skating can figure what's what.

There are still many people who don't think anything was wrong about the judging, which makes me wonder how much more transparent this situation needs to get for ppl to wake up and smell the roses. They probably still wouldn't believe it even if a judge went on camera and said he inflated the scores. :disapp:
 

mirai4life

1Lo <
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
The tech panels level calls on step sequences were crucial. As pointed out many times, they gave level 4 for Adelina in SP and no one else received level 4 in SP.

Once the picture got clearer, they gave level 4 StSq to all top 4 ladies in FS, except for Yuna Kim, who receive level 3 for her step sequences in both the SP and the FS.

This is inexplicable because Yuna has received level 4 for her steps throughout last season and this season. If you count in GOE's there is a 5.0 point difference right there.

Yuna should have received at least 4~5 points more than Adelina in SP, period.


Everything into consideration, Adelina would have been in 3rd.
Yuna should have been the clear winnre and Carolina should have been in second.

Disgusting judging.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
I suspect American and Japanese judges took the side of Russia this time. If Kim wins, she will be convinced that the low BV can still win with judges favoritism and try to return four years later. They don't want that for simple reasons.
 

jehan215

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
I was told that one of the tech caller, Olga Baranova, is Sotnikova's former coach as well. One big family really.

Oh my, is this true? If it is, this scandal just got BIGGER.

Shouldn't judges be disclosing their conflict of interests? As far as I know, lawyers/accountants can't be involved where they have direct (or even indirect) relationship. Or even their close relatives and next of kin - they can't be involved.

That said, the event was hosted on Russian soil - and with suspicious judging, I knew the playing field wasn't leveled.

Oh well, sooner or later ISU will regret what they've done. Future generations will acknowledge those truly talented skaters. I for one will never forget Mao, Kostner and Yuna's last programmes. They were all technically so strong, yet showing maturity, grace, sophistication and serenity.
 

vegarin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
There are still many people who don't think anything was wrong about the judging, which makes me wonder how much more transparent this situation needs to get for ppl to wake up and smell the roses. They probably still wouldn't believe it even if a judge went on camera and said he inflated the scores. :disapp:

Those are people who don't know much about skating who just listen to what NBC feeds them, and ISU is frantically trying to make this a non-issue. But the skaters and people who have been paying attention to figure skating know what's what. They can't actually make the scores disappear.
 

cptnhastings

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
The tech panels level calls on step sequences were crucial. As pointed out many times, they gave level 4 for Adelina in SP and no one else received level 4 in SP.

Once the picture got clearer, they gave level 4 StSq to all top 4 ladies in FS, except for Yuna Kim, who receive level 3 for her step sequences in both the SP and the FS.

This is inexplicable because Yuna had received level 4 for her steps throughout last season and this season. If you count in GOE's there is a 5.0 point difference right there.

Yuna should have received at least 4~5 points more than Adelina in SP, period.

If Yuna had received level 4s she would've gotten .60 more in each program plus a little more in GOE. That isn't over 5 points. Unless you're saying Sotnikova should've received level 3's instead? If both were true than Yuna's up 1.2 plus change, Sotnikova is down 1.2 plus change. That still isn't enough. Not sure why people are saying the step sequence levels mattered at the end of the day. (I don't know what levels they should've gotten myself.)
 

gds102

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
I was told that one of the tech caller, Olga Baranova, is Sotnikova's former coach as well. One big family really.

Another member of the technical panel, Finland's Olga Baranova, was seen hugging members of Russia's skating delegation beside the ice immediately after the skaters' flower ceremony.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/kusa/news/brennan-official-says-judges-slanted-toward-adelina-sotnikova-0

Olga Baranova - from Finland, ISU technical specialist. Former student of Viktor Kudravcev, coach for European and World champions.
Viktor Nikolayevich Kudriavtsev is a Russian figure skating coach and choreographer

 Replay operator: Alexander Kuznetsov of Russia.
In the aftermath of the judging scandal at the 2002 Salt Lake Games, Russian officials, including Kuznetsov, expressed frustration that the Canadians pushed to have the pair of Jamie Sale and David Pelletier elevated to a gold medal. “The Russians would never have brought up this issue,” said Kuznetsov, identified as a “figure skating coach.” “The Russians would have proven their right to victory at the next competition.”

Yes one big family.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Why was there no protest from the coaches as soon as they learned Balkov was on the judging panel?
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
If Yuna had received level 4s she would've gotten .60 more in each program plus a little more in GOE. That isn't over 5 points. Unless you're saying Sotnikova should've received level 3's instead? If both were true than Yuna's up 1.2 plus change, Sotnikova is down 1.2 plus change. That still isn't enough. Not sure why people are saying the step sequence levels mattered at the end of the day. (I don't know what levels they should've gotten myself.)

Step sequence's GOEs are differently calculated per levels given. For example, step sequences in the SP

Yuna's GOE: 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 (level 3)
Adelina's GOE: 2 1 3 2 2 3 2 2 2 (level 4)

You would think Yuna's GOE would be higher, considering she has an extra 3 instead of Adelina's 1. But that's not how it works in step sequence GOE due to different factoring per differing level. (in other words, higher level steps get higher factoring values) Yuna's GOE (factored) is 1.14, and Adelina's factored GOE is 1.50. So in SP, Yuna received 4.44 for her steps and Adelina received 5.40. If Yuna was given level 4 and Adelina 3, as they should have, she would have pulled away from Adelina more than 2.0 points total. If I remember correctly, prior to this event Adelina never received lvl 4 for her steps. (except in Cup of Russia :rofl: )

FS is even more egregious.

Yuna's GOE: 2 2 3 2 2 3 2 3 2 (level 3)
Adelina's GOE: 2 3 1 2 3 3 3 2 2 (level 4)

Adelina's factored GOE is 1.70 while Yuna's is, again, 1.14. Note the difference is even smaller, one +2 GOE v. one +1 GOE. But final points rewarded? Even bigger difference: Yuna = 4.44 (same as her SP), Adelina = 5.60 (even higher than her SP) Had Yuna received level 4 as she usually does, and Adelina received level 3 as she usually does, the score differential would have been 3.0+.

The tech panel was determined to cheat in an obscure element where scrutiny was least likely. They pulled a fast one and got away with it.
 
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