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Thread: the USA ladies need to up the technical content to compete

  1. #1
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    the USA ladies need to up the technical content to compete

    They won't be winning any gold medals in 2006 without triple-triples. I think that much is clear.

    Sasha needs a triple-triple.

    Michelle has a strong Triple Lutz-double toe. Is it so hard to add another revolution to that and make it a Triple Lutz-Triple Toe?

    Kristi Yamaguchi was doing that combination 12 years ago. Why can't Kwan get a triple-triple?

    She desperately needs to up the technical content of her programs to be competitive. You would think she would learn this lesson after her experiences in '98 and '02.

    Also, triple-triples may not be enough.

    If the Japanese women start doing quads and triple axels with consistency, they will not be stoppable unless the USA match them in technical content.

    I think Sasha said she was working on a quad. Nothing from Michelle though on getting a quad or triple axel.

    I would like to see her take some chances. If she falls, she falls. She's already won a gazillion national and world titles. She shouldn't play things conservatively. She's got nothing to lose.

  2. #2
    PATCH NJSk8Fan's Avatar
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    It seems to be the trend to push the technical envelope, especially with jumps......
    But my feeling is, it's SKATING and things need to get back to basics and we'll probably see a lot less injuries.

  3. #3
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Points well taken, but remember, Sasha and Michelle both landed on the podium without triple-triples.......yes, Arakawa has them, but so do several skaters that were off the podium. I think the American girls will get their acts together before the next Oly....42

  4. #4
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    But what would have happened had Miki Ando landed a 3/3 or two... or that quad? Or if Carolina had managed to skate cleanly with those two 3/3s of hers? Would Michelle's and Sasha's artistry have held up and would they have remained on the podium?

  5. #5
    Rinkside
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    Originally posted by NJSk8Fan
    It seems to be the trend to push the technical envelope, especially with jumps......
    But my feeling is, it's SKATING and things need to get back to basics and we'll probably see

    a lot less injuries.
    I agree 100 % forget all the big jumping let it be other things as well. There is a lot more to skating than jumping. Why keep pushing the jumps when it hurts so many skater in the long run. Is it worth it???

  6. #6
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    From what I have read from practice reports, their coaches, and Sasha and Michelle themselves, they *know* they need tougher combinations and *are* working on them. I love the CBC commentary, but during the LP broadcast, Barb made it sound like the idea of doing 3/3's was completely not considered by Sasha and Michelle. Her comment about Michelle "obviously not being able to do them" at all really bugged me.

  7. #7
    http://p068.ezboard.com/bstrawberrycanyonfsc
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    i think katarina witt's comments (posted in the edge) is right. they need to regulate those jumps, and focus on SKATING. we don't want crippled 21 yr olds. i want to enjoy shizuka and miki's skating when they're pros, as much as i do now.

    3/3s are good, but at what price?

  8. #8
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    Congratulations to Shizuka. I don't think Arakawa won on just the 3/3, she has some of the most powerful strokes, and stroking efficiency. She does not have Fumie's speed yet but almost there. Shizuka has the jumps and wonderfu basics and edges. I have seen her landed a triple axel in practice, I hope she will put that in her programs next years.

  9. #9
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    deja vu all over again

    All this talk about the big jumpers leaving the artistic skaters in the dust brings to mind a similar situation in the early 90s. Back then Tonya Harding and Midori Ito both were doing triple axles. There was a general feeling they had set a new standard and that skaters who lacked the 3A, such as Kristi Yamaguchi and Nancy Kerrigan, wouldn't be able to compete. The 1992 olys roll around and what happens? Kristi beats out Midori for the gold, while Nancy picks up the bronze and Tonya finishes off the podium.

    I'm anxious to see whether up and coming ladies will make triple axels and triple/triple combos the standard or if they'll make a big splash and then flame out. The future always holds such surprises.

  10. #10
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Good point...

    I don't thing the 3A example is quite like the 3/3 example. Back in the Tonya Midori days, they scared everyone for sure, but they were the only two ladies trying them competitively in a credible way. Others didn't step up, and it faded. The quad for men didn't become a "standard" until many men were landing them. Somehow in that fog, the quad went from an oddity with *wow* factor to a required standard for medals.

    I think the law of numbers is in play here. When only one or two people are upping the technical ante on a star power move, there is more room for error (or significant weaknesses elsewhere) giving others a good shot without those moves.

    It seems to me that putting a 3/3 in the short is the most risky place to put it, since a miss can result in completely missing a required element, hence a harsher penalty. I counted 5 ladies (and might have missed one or two - chime in here if there were more) that did 3/3's in the short. The odds start getting better that one or more of those five with the tech moves will 1) skate clean and 2) have the whole package.

    I agree that 3A's for ladies are far from becoming a standard. Not so for 3/3's these days if some of these skaters have anything to say (DO) about it.

    2 cents - fluff piece over, gotta go LOL. I'm also several sips behind on Peggy / Dick remarks according to the World's Drinking Rules. Good thing I'm taping this.

    DG

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Lucy25
    Barb made it sound like the idea of doing 3/3's was completely not considered by Sasha and Michelle. Her comment about Michelle "obviously not being able to do them" at all really bugged me.
    That comment really bugged me too. She made it sound like triple triple's were way out of Michelle's grasp. It's weird, because she's demonstrated that she CAN do it more than once.

    And another thing, Barb AND Paul said more than once that this was Carolina Kostner's FIRST Worlds, when it's definitely her SECOND. :S

  12. #12
    Keeper of La Khok's Tutus Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Additional comments on the tech progress

    We also saw a 3/3/2 combination this year, and a 3/2/.5/2 combination from Irena (ADORED that jump sequence - to me it was the highlight of her program). While I believe Irina has done that before (confirmation?), is this the first time we have seen that plus a 3/3/2 in the ladies free?

    Both of these beat a 3/2.

    I'm just thrilled for Irena that she got out there. What a great competitor. I really hope she can fully recover and get back to IrinaForm for 2006.

    I love my US ladies, and they are very strong. But they've got to get these more difficult jumps out there in competition next year IMO.

    DG

  13. #13
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    While the 3-3 is important, I think COP will remove some of the emphasis. It seems to reward clean, well edged, well executed, good choreography.

    I think that it's likely that we will see attempts at 3-3's from both MK and Sasha over the next 2 years. In a sense, it's strategic to preserve the body when the 3-3 is not totally required.

    Shizuka's win this year was not based only on her 3-3. Even Tara's and Sarah's Oly wins weren't just about the 3-3's - both of them skated with freedom and joy, lacked tenseness, which is why they won. It wasn't just the 3-3.

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