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Thread: The art, the flow, the grace is gone

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by surimi View Post
    Nothing but your impression, and of those who think like you; and honestly, I don't care how many of those there are. For me, Sotnikova delivered a great performance, I liked her better than Kim, and in my eyes she's a legit winner. Full stop.
    At least you are being honest about it without making up excuses. I can respect that. To be perfectly honest, however, if you truly don't care how many of us don't think like yourself you probably have not bothered making a post. I know that because I have lots of things that I do not care about.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by surimi View Post
    Nothing but your impression, and of those who think like you; and honestly, I don't care how many of those there are. For me, Sotnikova delivered a great performance, I liked her better than Kim, and in my eyes she's a legit winner. Full stop.
    I don't consider her a legit winner, but the reality is, she delivered a great performance. Sotnikova skating that well, given her previous skates, was NOT a certainty... so saying that she was given the win and was 100% guaranteed it trivializes the fact that she had the skates of her life in the SP and LP. Yes, her PCS was way too high, but it's not like she bombed.

    pangtongfan, I know it's just the French, but are you still confident about Federer winning Wimbledon, when he can't get past the 4th round in the French Open (not to mention, he was out in the 2nd round last year at Wimbledon).

  3. #138
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    I don't remember if I commented on this previously but two things came to mind when I saw the thread title. No, the art and flow and grace aren't gone. Firstly, many of us will see grace and flow in different skaters and teams, and secondly we don't always want just grace, although it helps if there's some sort of flow no matter what type of skating is beings shown.

    I started watching skating regularly again back in March 2012 when I saw Yulia skating to R&J at the 2012 Junior Worlds. To me her skating is pure art and grace and flow wonderfully. although maybe not last year when she was struggling a bit with jumps. Comments I've read about not finishing movements off or holding them make zero sense to me because all I see is skating that flows so smoothly and effortlessly that her programs seem like they've passed too quickly and you want to see her skate for another ten minutes. Tessa & Scott are so graceful and Stéphane Lambiel is the epitome of grace in men's skating. (Most would agree with these two examples, I think.) Also I like watching Eric & Meagan, and I think they are very graceful, even though I have read many comments on here critiquing phantom things (to me, at least) such as line and extension. I don't see those at all, all I see is art and grace. So I think that there is always art and flow and grace in all skating it's just not always done in a way we individually appreciate.

  4. #139
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    ^Wow, your definition of grace is really all over the place.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Back on topic I find the beauty, grace, and art of skating has died even worse in dance than ladies. Regardless of if D&W deserve their scores and placements (they probably do for the most part) the direction a team like them dominating is taking dance is not the one many dance purists want to see it go. They are not a beautiful team, they lack extension and turnout, and they certainly dont create any artistic or emotional masterpieces for programs. It seems COP encourages dance to be more about acrobatics and technical ability. The technical ablity part is fine as there was a day there was not enough emphasis on that, but the mini pairs look of many teams is disconcerting.

    A team like Bobrova & Soloviev are a team who would never get even close to a world medal in the old days, even if they have decent technical skills. Her hideous posture, their lack of unision, their extremely sloppy free legs, their lack of extension and line. They wouldt get a second look, even at an event like last years wolds where they werent gifted and did deserve bronze under todays rules. Today with what is valued in the dance judging and rules, even under fair judging, teams like they can be competitive for medals. Which shows how much IJS has changed dance, and while it has seen some positive the beauty and art in dance is almost non existent today, only brought back in flashes by teams like Virtue & Moir who are one of the only ones who still exhibit this.

    You also never see maserpieces like Klimova & Ponomarenko's Bach or Torvill & Dean's Bolero, Summertime, Paso Doble, Mack and Mabel, Barnum, Bourne & Kraatz's Riverdance, Gritschuk & Platov's Requiem and The Feeling Begins, Krylova & Ovsiannikov's Masquerade Waltz. All the restrictions and technical demands make it impossible, yet this programs all exhibited tremendous technical skill but were able to be designed in a way that created an amazing mood and magic you dont see today even from the greatest free dances.

    To construct ice dance as a series of elements is silly to begin with, as ice dance has never been about a series of tricks. Atleast the emphasis on difficult footwork I like, but all the emphasis on spins and especialy these pair like lifts, is not taking dance in the right direction.

    Hindsight always wears rose-colored glasses. You left out innumerable programs that substituted facial theatrics and Uber! Drama! for technical skill and fine choreography. And frankly, there's more than one kind of dance.

    And trust me, as someone who spent a small fortune seeing dance companies over the years (NYC is one of the great cities in the world for dance), I've seen some lifts in programs that can rival the most acrobatic lifts in ID AND Pairs.

    But hey, de gustibus non est disputandum.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    At least you are being honest about it without making up excuses. I can respect that. To be perfectly honest, however, if you truly don't care how many of us don't think like yourself you probably have not bothered making a post. I know that because I have lots of things that I do not care about.
    Oops, sorry for the late reply. But yes, I did mean what I wrote. In the sense of "I don't care how many people are saying that Kim is the more graceful and artistic skater, I still liked Sotnikova better in this particular performance". BTW thanks for being civil.

  7. #142
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    Last year there was Daisuke Takahashi, Jason Brown, Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Julia, Hanyu, Fernandez and Chan. Each of these skaters has performed at various times this year with flow or art or grace.
    So, at least to me, it is not gone at all.

  8. #143
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    I would add Machida to that list. He really "feels" his music and I love his expressiveness. I think he could be like another Takahashi if he tries more demanding/explorative choreography.

  9. #144
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    With Mao, Carolina and Akiko out of the line up, I do think there will be a decline in that type of "art" in the sport. Yu-Na is included in this list too, but the fact is she's been more absent than present this past quad which is why artistry was pushed to the forefront of the sport. Yu-Na's absence resulted in a sort of technical regression among the veterans BUT it did give way to much more refined, artistic, elegant and mature skating and that was the deciding factor in a number of competitions.

    With all of the top veterans departing, the field is a bit more open for the newer girls who have a style that isn't nearly as refined/mature/deep as the ones who are leaving. That's not to say they won't get there eventually, but as of now I'd say Ashley Wagner is the only veteran remaining who has that type of artistic packaging (presence, feel for the music, performance ability, great interpretation).

    I'm feeling like this quad is going to be more focused on the technical side of the sport than the artistic. The fact that the judges regularly throw out 68+ PCS for skaters like Julia, Adelina and Gracie is proof that the PCS isn't carrying as much weight or distinction as it used to. It will be a different type of artistry, that's for sure but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. There are many different kinds of "art" and it's all subjective. There are no well-defined parameters for what constitutes it which is why it's so varied.

    I prefer skaters like Mao, Carolina, Akiko and Yu-Na but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy skaters like Adelina, Elena or Julia. They all have different styles and different strengths and I'm fine with that. IMO, it'd be a much more beautiful sport if every skater was a Mao, Carolina, Yu-Na or Akiko...but they aren't, and that's okay.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    ^Wow, your definition of grace is really all over the place.
    In what way, exactly? I know people won't agree with my four examples. But I suppose that's exactly my point. While others may not see grace (although I would say T&S and SL are the best overall) I do see grace and flow in some skaters that others don't and vice versa.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post

    I prefer skaters like Mao, Carolina, Akiko and Yu-Na
    I like how you mentioned Akiko. I never really knew of her, but when I explored her programs more, it really made me sad that she is retiring. Her performances of "O" and "Phantom of the Opera" really made time stand still for me. Very gifted skater. (Of course the others you mentioned as well)

  12. #147
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erasona View Post
    I like how you mentioned Akiko. I never really knew of her, but when I explored her programs more, it really made me sad that she is retiring. Her performances of "O" and "Phantom of the Opera" really made time stand still for me. Very gifted skater. (Of course the others you mentioned as well)
    I adore Akiko and I'm going to miss her so much. I do hope she sticks around the sport though. She could be a performance coach and teach skaters how to connect with their music and the audience. That was definitely her gift.

    I'm posting an adoration post on my blog about Akiko some time next week. I posted my one for Yu-Na earlier today.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I'm posting an adoration post on my blog about Akiko some time next week. I posted my one for Yu-Na earlier today.
    While I have an opposite feeling with post-Vancouver Yuna, I was really enjoy your post, thank you so much

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I adore Akiko and I'm going to miss her so much. I do hope she sticks around the sport though. She could be a performance coach and teach skaters how to connect with their music and the audience. That was definitely her gift.

    I'm posting an adoration post on my blog about Akiko some time next week. I posted my one for Yu-Na earlier today.
    It's always a joy to see your posts

  15. #150
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nguyenghita View Post
    While I have an opposite feeling with post-Vancouver Yuna, I was really enjoy your post, thank you so much
    Quote Originally Posted by Tompson View Post
    It's always a joy to see your posts
    Thanks guys

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