The art, the flow, the grace is gone | Page 7 | Golden Skate

The art, the flow, the grace is gone

Anna K.

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
naw, I would rather the money. Figure skating would still be a foul sport long way from resolution even if they judged the womens event at the Games fairly. The judging of the other events all sucked already after all, and the judging the last 4 years has been the worst in the history of the sport. A well judged womens event with the correct winner would just be a blip in the grand scheme of things.

You should still be bitter about Ladies result. Thanks to the publicity it caused, now everybody knows it and you'll get less money from the bookies' ;)
 

Anna K.

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
That's because we want to believe, pangtongfan. Quoting the movie... all right :) We want to believe :)
 

Anna K.

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
Well I do feel sorry for any Kostner or Kim fans (for the record I am not even a fan of either one, especialy Kim, so their winning wouldnt have bothered me other than the farcial scoring injustice sense anyway) who were so charmingly naive and clueless to actually be holding out any hope for a win for their favorite if they actually saw the judging panel that was drawn for the ladies LP. At the very least they should have drowned their sorrows in a few beers before the womens event, and just held out hope for one of them getting a bronze medal. Then be elated with joy when Julia's unexpectedly poor performance allowed them to salvage 2 of the medals behind the pre arranged Russian victor. Needless to say a clean Julia would have crushed Kim and Kostner at these Games too (and a clean Leonova had the Russian had a 3rd spot to enter).

Who told you I am a fan of Costner or Kim?

Nooo, that's much worse. I used to be a fan of CoP :biggrin:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
That is ok. I bet on tons of sports. I bet on Federer to win Wimbledon at 1-7 odds the other day and I like my chances on that too.

Hah, really? Federer just lost Indian Wells to Djokovic. Lost to Nadal at the Aussie Open in straight sets. He hasn't even made the final in his past 6 Grand Slams let alone win. Was ousted in the 2nd Round of Wimbledon last year. When he won Wimbledon 2 years ago, it was his only grand slam win (and only his 2nd final appearance) in his past 16 grand slams. Although I suppose it's your money and you're free to lose it however you like.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
There's always figure skating :yes:

No, but you see, pangtongfan won $8000! Just like he won $50,000 at last year's Worlds when he bet 50-1 odds that Ten would be on the podium. :laugh: Unfortunately, he lost a lot of that when he incorrectly predicted W/P would win a GP event, or that V/T would win every event this year. :no:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
He barely lost to Djokovic on super slow hard courts, which is in fact a great result for Federer. You really think he is going to lose to him on GRASS where Djokovic sucks majorly (well I mean in a relative sense, I know he won a Wimbledon title in his all time career year in 2011 but grass is by far his worst surface vs slow hard courts which is his absolute best) if they played tommorow. Had they played that same match on grass, Djokovic would win 10 games in a best of 5 max. The last time they played on grass Djokovic lost quite comfortably (2012 Wimbledon semis) and that was at a point in time on a slow hard court (note I said slow, not fast) Djokovic would have spanked Federer silly. Djokovic btw is the biggest bettors sucker there is. He is labelled the "favorite" for 3 or 4 of the 4 slams every year despite that he has only once won more than 1 slam in a year. He is even anually picked as the favorite for Wimbledon on a surface he is by far the least skilled of the top players. Even this year his odds are set at 1-2 to win Wimbledon, quite a joke.

FYI, the last grass court title - and we're talking ATP - that Federer won was June 2013... against Mikhail Youzhny. Prior to that Federer's last grass title was, you guessed it, Wimbledon 2012. We all know he's a grass specialist but

And while I agree that Djokovic is over-rated, and not one of my favourite players, his last 4 Wimbledon appearances have been F, SF, W, SF... compared to Federer: 2R, W, QF, QF.

I'm not saying Djokovic is guaranteed to beat Federer should they meet, and obviously you can't ever count out Federer on grass with it being his best surface, but I would put money on Nadal or Murray (and yes, Djokovic) to win before I even laid a cent on Federer.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The other thing to remember about Nadal is he has had years of chronic knee problems. That is probably why he sucks on grass these days. The low bends you need on grass are just too painful for him. So he will probably never recover his badly lost (since 2011) grass form, even if the often clueless bookies still havent clued in to this. Now if he could hire Alla Shekhovtseva and Yuri Balkov to act as chair umpire and line judge, I am sure he could and would win another Wimbledon, but sadly for him I doubt that will be the case anytime soon.


I'm anticipating a Djokovic/Murray final. Federer might sneak by one of them into the final. Murray, while slumping a bit as of late, has a better game than Federer at this point. Federer's speed and even his groundstrokes are not what they used to be.

As for Federer not getting a cakewalk in 2012 compared to Djokovic in 2011, let's compare:

Federer in 2012 Wimbledon:
- was #3 seed
- 16 GS wins at that point, 6 Wimbledon
- beat the #1 seed at some point
- seeds faced en route to the final: #26 & #29
- won the final against #4 seed (Andy Murray, who had only been in 4 GS finals and had yet to win a Grand Slam)

Djokovic in 2011:
- was the #2 seed
- 2 GS wins at that point, 0 Wimbledon
- beat the #1 seed at some point
- seeds faced en route to the final: #12, #19, #31
- won the final against #1 seed (Rafael Nadal, 10-time Grand Slam champion at that point, 2-time Wimbledon winner)

I suppose you think Federer's 2009 French Open win wasn't a cake walk either. :rolleye:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I do agree that Federer has better odds than 1-7, and Djokovic shouldn't be 1-2, but I'd give Murray or Djokovic a better bet. Of course Wawrinka as #3 makes it complicated, but he's never done well at Wimbledon, so I'm not expecting big things.

Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled thread.
 

fruitbasket

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
As far as I am concerned, Adelina interpreted her music in an eye-pleasing, cheerful, lively way, and I found her movements fitting the theme. She skated with an energy and speed I don't recall from Kostner and Kim, for all their flowing. I really liked her take on the theme, and had no issue with her winning. I guess I don't belong to the "most of us" you mention. :)

Sotnikova did not execute planned jumps and she is not polished skater like yuna, carolina and mao. Sotnikova got the gold because of favoritisim.
 

surimi

Onward and forward, Sota!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
and she is not polished skater like yuna, carolina and mao. Sotnikova got the gold because of favoritisim.

Nothing but your impression, and of those who think like you; and honestly, I don't care how many of those there are. For me, Sotnikova delivered a great performance, I liked her better than Kim, and in my eyes she's a legit winner. Full stop.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Nothing but your impression, and of those who think like you; and honestly, I don't care how many of those there are. For me, Sotnikova delivered a great performance, I liked her better than Kim, and in my eyes she's a legit winner. Full stop.

At least you are being honest about it without making up excuses. I can respect that. To be perfectly honest, however, if you truly don't care how many of us don't think like yourself you probably have not bothered making a post. I know that because I have lots of things that I do not care about.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Nothing but your impression, and of those who think like you; and honestly, I don't care how many of those there are. For me, Sotnikova delivered a great performance, I liked her better than Kim, and in my eyes she's a legit winner. Full stop.

I don't consider her a legit winner, but the reality is, she delivered a great performance. Sotnikova skating that well, given her previous skates, was NOT a certainty... so saying that she was given the win and was 100% guaranteed it trivializes the fact that she had the skates of her life in the SP and LP. Yes, her PCS was way too high, but it's not like she bombed.

pangtongfan, I know it's just the French, but are you still confident about Federer winning Wimbledon, when he can't get past the 4th round in the French Open (not to mention, he was out in the 2nd round last year at Wimbledon). :sarcasm:
 

Isabel_O'Reilly

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 30, 2013
I don't remember if I commented on this previously but two things came to mind when I saw the thread title. No, the art and flow and grace aren't gone. Firstly, many of us will see grace and flow in different skaters and teams, and secondly we don't always want just grace, although it helps if there's some sort of flow no matter what type of skating is beings shown.

I started watching skating regularly again back in March 2012 when I saw Yulia skating to R&J at the 2012 Junior Worlds. To me her skating is pure art and grace and flow wonderfully. although maybe not last year when she was struggling a bit with jumps. Comments I've read about not finishing movements off or holding them make zero sense to me because all I see is skating that flows so smoothly and effortlessly that her programs seem like they've passed too quickly and you want to see her skate for another ten minutes. Tessa & Scott are so graceful and Stéphane Lambiel is the epitome of grace in men's skating. (Most would agree with these two examples, I think.) Also I like watching Eric & Meagan, and I think they are very graceful, even though I have read many comments on here critiquing phantom things (to me, at least) such as line and extension. I don't see those at all, all I see is art and grace. So I think that there is always art and flow and grace in all skating it's just not always done in a way we individually appreciate.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Back on topic I find the beauty, grace, and art of skating has died even worse in dance than ladies. Regardless of if D&W deserve their scores and placements (they probably do for the most part) the direction a team like them dominating is taking dance is not the one many dance purists want to see it go. They are not a beautiful team, they lack extension and turnout, and they certainly dont create any artistic or emotional masterpieces for programs. It seems COP encourages dance to be more about acrobatics and technical ability. The technical ablity part is fine as there was a day there was not enough emphasis on that, but the mini pairs look of many teams is disconcerting.

A team like Bobrova & Soloviev are a team who would never get even close to a world medal in the old days, even if they have decent technical skills. Her hideous posture, their lack of unision, their extremely sloppy free legs, their lack of extension and line. They wouldt get a second look, even at an event like last years wolds where they werent gifted and did deserve bronze under todays rules. Today with what is valued in the dance judging and rules, even under fair judging, teams like they can be competitive for medals. Which shows how much IJS has changed dance, and while it has seen some positive the beauty and art in dance is almost non existent today, only brought back in flashes by teams like Virtue & Moir who are one of the only ones who still exhibit this.

You also never see maserpieces like Klimova & Ponomarenko's Bach or Torvill & Dean's Bolero, Summertime, Paso Doble, Mack and Mabel, Barnum, Bourne & Kraatz's Riverdance, Gritschuk & Platov's Requiem and The Feeling Begins, Krylova & Ovsiannikov's Masquerade Waltz. All the restrictions and technical demands make it impossible, yet this programs all exhibited tremendous technical skill but were able to be designed in a way that created an amazing mood and magic you dont see today even from the greatest free dances.

To construct ice dance as a series of elements is silly to begin with, as ice dance has never been about a series of tricks. Atleast the emphasis on difficult footwork I like, but all the emphasis on spins and especialy these pair like lifts, is not taking dance in the right direction.


Hindsight always wears rose-colored glasses. You left out innumerable programs that substituted facial theatrics and Uber! Drama! for technical skill and fine choreography. And frankly, there's more than one kind of dance.

And trust me, as someone who spent a small fortune seeing dance companies over the years (NYC is one of the great cities in the world for dance), I've seen some lifts in programs that can rival the most acrobatic lifts in ID AND Pairs.

But hey, de gustibus non est disputandum.
 
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