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Thread: The art, the flow, the grace is gone

  1. #16
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    BTW Michelle in 98 was far more cautious and many times more slow than Yu Na in 2014, and weaker technically of the two without the astounding artistry she had at U.S Nationals, no I definitely wouldnt say she was better even though both were excellent and both had skated better before. Despite smaller jumps and slightly weaker spins, Tara overall was far better in 98 than Sotnikova in 2014 as well, both technically and especialy artistically.
    That is your opinion. I found Yuna's performances lacking spark and I'm not the only one. I can't even say she had a clear technical edge over the others this time. I mean even Kostner completed a 7 triple program. Tara had better packaging for sure. But I don't think she was necessarily a stronger skater than Adelina.

  2. #17
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    Kostner did not complete a 7 triple program. She had no triple-triple combination. She did however complete a double axel + triple toe(?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by fahrenheit290 View Post
    Kostner did not complete a 7 triple program. She had no triple-triple combination. She did however complete a double axel + triple toe(?).
    Kostner completed 7 triples, but she repeated the two easiest triples, toeloop (only one in combination) and salchow. Yu-Na repeated salchow and lutz. Yu-Na's combination was significantly tougher than Kostners (3Lz/3T to 2A/3T) and she had better spins. Kostner had better footwork.

  4. #19
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Me, I think Carolina was underscored and should have won both SP and FS. But OTOH, I think her beautiful programs mean that beautiful, graceful, artistic, Clean programs still exist IJS has not destroyed the sport Suspect judging has also not left the sport, I'm sad to say, but that's a different proposition.

  5. #20
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    To be honest, I thought Carolina telegraphed all of her jumps. Yes after re-watching the skates again, I think Yuna should have won. I still think Mao should have won FP though. Over all Yuna should have won because of her PCS. Yes, Adelina was awesome last night but her PCS isnt' on par with Yuna or Carolina. The only person(PCS) on par with Yuna and Carolina is Mao Asada.

  6. #21
    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Did I say Adelina was better than them? All I said was I don't think Adelina is that much different from Tara in 1998. And that the judges do have a history of awarding performances that weren't the most artistic or refined. Tara did not have better skating skills, artistry, refinement, or even jump quality (her jumps were really small) than Michelle but she managed to win because she had more difficult technical content and was really on her A game that night. I've heard some fans defend Tara 's win because Michelle was cautious, not as inspired. In my opinion, Michelle appeared far more inspired (esp in the short) than Kim. The most inspiring and artistic performances of the medalists was Carolina and my pick for the winner.
    I have been reading a lot about YuNa's apparent uninspired skating in the Free. Let's get this straight; it isn't YuNa's lack of passion that is at fault here; it is/was the nature of her program; THE PROGRAM ITSELF lacks dynamism. It is a sophisticated program that requires multiple viewings which it never had. And the Short was a masterpiece that was underscored and ultimately led to her losing to Adelina...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    I have been reading a lot about YuNa's apparent uninspired skating in the Free. Let's get this straight; it isn't YuNa's lack of passion that is at fault here; it is/was the nature of her program; THE PROGRAM ITSELF lacks dynamism. It is a sophisticated program that requires multiple viewings which it never had. And the Short was a masterpiece that was underscored and ultimately led to her losing to Adelina...
    I definitely see your point. I felt the same way with Oskana Baiul and Tara Lipinski Olympic programs. I didn't like them. However, I now look at them and see why the judges gave the marks that they did.

    Unfortunately in figure skating, you only get that one moment. There's no repeat or replay. So you have to make a lasting impression to the judges at that moment.

    Side note... one major difference for these two Olympics versus 2014 is that both Oskana and Tara went after Nancy and Michelle. I truly believe if everyone gave the exact program but switched the order, the results would have been reversed. There is a scoring bias for skaters who go later in the event.

    This cannot be said for Yuna with the long program. However, it is definitely true regarding the short program. If Yuna had went in the last group and skated her short program, her lead would have been a lot larger which may have been enough to win again.

  8. #23
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RABID View Post
    I have been reading a lot about YuNa's apparent uninspired skating in the Free. Let's get this straight; it isn't YuNa's lack of passion that is at fault here; it is/was the nature of her program; THE PROGRAM ITSELF lacks dynamism. It is a sophisticated program that requires multiple viewings which it never had. And the Short was a masterpiece that was underscored and ultimately led to her losing to Adelina...
    I do think the lack of mileage on both programs hurt Yu-Na here. She hadn't competed at a major event all season long compared to Adelina who had two GPs, the final, nationals and Euros. The judges knew her programs, knew how she'd performed them all season and knew what to expect.

    Had Yu-Na competed in the GP she'd have had momentum on her side and likely would have scored higher in both programs. Yu-Na's first performances usually set her base score for the season and in each outing she builds on it. I honestly didn't think Yu-Na's Bond performance in Vancouver was better than her performance at TEB that year yet she topped that score by several points.

    A lot of skating is about momentum and, despite the fact Yu-Na is world champ, no one had really seen her all season long and I do think that hurt her scoring here.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I do think the lack of mileage on both programs hurt Yu-Na here. She hadn't competed at a major event all season long compared to Adelina who had two GPs, the final, nationals and Euros. The judges knew her programs, knew how she'd performed them all season and knew what to expect.

    Had Yu-Na competed in the GP she'd have had momentum on her side and likely would have scored higher in both programs. Yu-Na's first performances usually set her base score for the season and in each outing she builds on it. I honestly didn't think Yu-Na's Bond performance in Vancouver was better than her performance at TEB that year yet she topped that score by several points.

    A lot of skating is about momentum and, despite the fact Yu-Na is world champ, no one had really seen her all season long and I do think that hurt her scoring here.
    I agree with you but have another reason. I think Yuna's starting order in the SP hurt her more than I had expected it to do. And for her Bond performance, I'd pick the one at SA for the best. Anyway I mostly agree with you!

  10. #25
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    The starting order has something to do with it too but even that can be attributed to her not competing on the GP this year. She didn't have enough points to get her into the later groups b/c she didn't compete this year...

    SA was a great one But see? We both think that one of her previous performances outranked her Olympic performance even though the Olympic performance outscored both by 2 points.

  11. #26
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    I miss the beautiful spirals of Michelle and Sasha. *sigh*

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalloryArcher View Post
    Uh what??? Her choreography was silly and tacky, and she should have lost points for THAT. The costumes just added insult to injury.
    You do realize that "silly" and "tacky" are opinions which do not require a penalty in PCS, right?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CezarMart View Post
    l want you remind you sore losers this is Olympics. And Olympics is not about shmartistry, but about sports, athleticism and energy. Please, fund your own Artistic Games and you will be rewarding grace and art. But not here.
    The beauty, fluidity, grace, are the upper state of athleticism. Therefore, efficiency is always beautiful. This only can occur when the athlete absolutely dominates the technical side, automatically.

    But, an athlete who can just do what to do ... not has place for aesthetics.

    Because this, Yuna is aesthetics and Adelina is not.

  14. #29
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    To me, seeing technical proficiency and difficulty performed is beautiful to watch. Artistry is artistry, but even an exceptionally executed technical skate should still be appreciated even if it is devoid of artistry. Just like many artistic skates without the high difficulty or errors can also be appreciated.

  15. #30
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    I find it hilarious that all of a sudden Adelina doesn't have an artistic bone in her body when she has generally receive PCS scores just behind the top 3 all season, along with Akiko and Ashley when they have skated well. Somehow coming close to matching Yuna on PCS now makes her a sloppy, third tier skater.

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