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Thread: The art, the flow, the grace is gone

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    To me, seeing technical proficiency and difficulty performed is beautiful to watch. Artistry is artistry, but even an exceptionally executed technical skate should still be appreciated even if it is devoid of artistry. Just like many artistic skates without the high difficulty or errors can also be appreciated.
    Couldn't agree more

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgieFan View Post
    The beauty, fluidity, grace, are the upper state of athleticism. Therefore, efficiency is always beautiful. This only can occur when the athlete absolutely dominates the technical side, automatically.

    But, an athlete who can just do what to do ... not has place for aesthetics.

    Because this, Yuna is aesthetics and Adelina is not.
    No they aren't, beauty is always, to a degree, a genetic accident. A skater with lean, slender legs and arms will always create more attractive lines on the ice. If a lady skater is on the short and stocky, muscular side, she will never have beautiful lines in arabesques and bielman spins no matter how hard she tries. She will also never be successful in the lyrical ballerina mold - a current preferred aesthetics of the sport. This is the sport that privileges the beautiful and the slender. This doesn't mean a stocky, muscular skater cannot score the most points under the rules currently in effect. That just means she won't look good while doing it, and the rulebook says it's OK.

    Furthermore, in arabesques, for instance, beauty has nothing to do with efficiency. Kim can do a highly efficient arabesque spiral as far as gliding goes; but the lack of amplitude (genetic, to a degree) and turnout in her toe (negligence) make this move unsightly in her rendition.

  3. #33
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    Nonsense. Yuna Kim's body isn't exactly the most beautiful or beneficial to skating. She has achieved those lines through endless hours of practice and learning. And even then there are people who criticize her for her imperfect lines. (like yourself) You can easily check out Yuna Kim's "body lines" during her junior years. Or watch Zijun Li's skating tell me she need not improve on postures or moves because she's slender and cute.

    It's not like Adelina's is ugly or anything. She has a beautiful body many girls would die for.

  4. #34
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    After Evan and now Adelina, you would think coaches would catch on to the formula the IJS promotes:

    --Load that program up, baby. Not "never a dull moment," but "never a moment without something busybusybusy going on." The days of elegant simplicity are ovuh--welcome to the days of wretched excess!

    --Stick a lot of difficult jumps in the second half. What do you think that bonus is for anyway?

    --Choreography? We don't need no stinkin' choreography. Just make it look busybusybusy. And complicated. We like complicated steps. Especially if we can fool ourselves into believing they look "balletic."

    --Music? Oh yeah. You should have some. We're not all that fussed about it, to tell the truth.

    --Interpretation? If you make it busy enough, we'll be sure to think you're interpreting, well, something.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    Nonsense. Yuna Kim's body isn't exactly the most beautiful or beneficial to skating. She has achieved those lines through endless hours of practice and learning. And even then there are people who criticize her for her imperfect lines. (like yourself) You can easily check out Yuna Kim's "body lines" during her junior years. Or watch Zijun Li's skating tell me she need not improve on postures or moves because she's slender and cute.

    It's not like Adelina's is ugly or anything. She has a beautiful body many girls would die for.
    If Kim had Tonya Harding's body, she would never achieve beautiful lines, no matter how hard she'd try. I am not saying a slender-bodied person cannot improve their lines. Just that after a similar number of hours invested into training, a slender person will come out ahead of the stocky one in terms of beauty.

    I'm hardly the only person criticizing Kim's spirals.

  6. #36
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    But Adelina is not Tonya harding? She has a beautiful body? More beautiful than Kim's, depending on the beholder?

    Yet her lines are uglier and moves are unrefined compared to Kim. Can she improve? Absolutely.

  7. #37
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    Nonsense. Yuna Kim's body isn't exactly the most beautiful or beneficial to skating.
    I don't think this is accurate. She has long, slim, perfectly proportioned limbs. Her body automatically gives her the possibility of creating lines that other skaters simply can not and that slenderness allows her to more easily pull in tight for jumps.

    But that's not a knock against her at all. Everyone in life has different talents.

  8. #38
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    You are probably right, BoP. Kim has unusually long legs and arms and they must help skating and artistry. I think her upper body is quite short, though - sometimes it looks as if her upper body were about as tall as the height of her head. That might be an illusion created by costumes, but IMO it is true that she has not been the most flexible skater. (and unduly criticized for it)

    @Pangtongfan: I don't remember where but I think I've read your comments re: Putin in the audience during the women's FS. Is that true? I thought he was present only for the team event.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    After Evan and now Adelina, you would think coaches would catch on to the formula the IJS promotes:

    --Load that program up, baby. Not "never a dull moment," but "never a moment without something busybusybusy going on." The days of elegant simplicity are ovuh--welcome to the days of wretched excess!

    --Stick a lot of difficult jumps in the second half. What do you think that bonus is for anyway?

    --Choreography? We don't need no stinkin' choreography. Just make it look busybusybusy. And complicated. We like complicated steps. Especially if we can fool ourselves into believing they look "balletic."

    --Music? Oh yeah. You should have some. We're not all that fussed about it, to tell the truth.

    --Interpretation? If you make it busy enough, we'll be sure to think you're interpreting, well, something.
    This. Basically it's all about how much "stuff" you can pack into your program as opposed to the actual quality of it. Granted, sticking a lot of "stuff" into one's program is surely difficult, but does it actually make the program "better?" Based on Evan and Adelina's offerings, the answer is a resounding NO. Both of them are gifted technically (sort of), but the minute their programs are over, you don't remember a single thing about them except for the amount of "stuff" that was going on in both programs. It's actually a bit tiring watching skaters like them because it's not like you're really watching a program so much as a checklist of tons of things jam-packed into a few minutes.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Yes Putin was in the audience for the ladies final. Apparently he already knew something good was about to happen, hours before it did. It was quite a striking combination of things to witness prior to the free program even getting underway. Putin, Shekhovtseva, Balkov, and a Russian technical caller. I would have been more subtle in hiding everything, but that isnt the Russian way I guess.
    Thank you.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by wootie View Post
    It's actually a bit tiring watching skaters like them because it's not like you're really watching a program so much as a checklist of tons of things jam-packed into a few minutes.
    That's what makes it a sport and not an exhibition. Under IJS harder is better. Does it bother me that Yuna does 6 back crossovers into her combo? Not really. However, it's certainly not the most challenging way she could enter that element.

  12. #42
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Yes Putin was in the audience for the ladies final. Apparently he already knew something good was about to happen, hours before it did.
    Putin attended other Sochi competitions -- unrelated to skating -- as well, didn't he? His presence does not mean that the individual Ladies result was preordained.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    But Adelina is not Tonya harding? She has a beautiful body? More beautiful than Kim's, depending on the beholder?

    Yet her lines are uglier and moves are unrefined compared to Kim. Can she improve? Absolutely.
    Are you intentionally being dense? This is not an Adelina vs. Kim comparison. This is a comparison of slender skaters vs. stocky skaters. All of them, in perpetuity.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadya View Post
    Are you intentionally being dense? This is not an Adelina vs. Kim comparison. This is a comparison of slender skaters vs. stocky skaters. All of them, in perpetuity.
    Perhaps reading the OP will help you out in that regard. And if it's about slender vs. stocky, then there is no discussion to be had other than how stocky. You cannot play MLB if you are 5'5". Tonya Harding was not Tarasova stocky.

  15. #45
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    But Adelina is not Tonya harding? She has a beautiful body? More beautiful than Kim's, depending on the beholder?

    Yet her lines are uglier and moves are unrefined compared to Kim. Can she improve? Absolutely.
    She might have a beautiful body but Kim is more slim and elegant. That's a fact and not depending on the beholder. Same goes for Carolina.

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