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Thread: The art, the flow, the grace is gone

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    Nonsense. Yuna Kim's body isn't exactly the most beautiful or beneficial to skating. She has achieved those lines through endless hours of practice and learning. And even then there are people who criticize her for her imperfect lines. (like yourself) You can easily check out Yuna Kim's "body lines" during her junior years. Or watch Zijun Li's skating tell me she need not improve on postures or moves because she's slender and cute.

    It's not like Adelina's is ugly or anything. She has a beautiful body many girls would die for.
    What are you talking about? I think Yuna Kim has THE most aesthetically pleasing body out of all the female skaters today, and one of the best in recent memory. Her extreme slenderness and willowy-ness is what reinforces the elegance, lightness, and grace of her jumps and overall skating. Yes, practice is responsible for the beauty of her lines, but that particular sort of physical build gives her an added advantage; it's the cherry atop the sundae.

    As much I like Michelle Kwan, I never fully warmed up to her skating because she has a stocky, short build.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilahozi View Post
    What are you talking about? I think Yuna Kim has THE most aesthetically pleasing body out of all the female skaters today, and one of the best in recent memory. Her extreme slenderness and willowy-ness is what reinforces the elegance, lightness, and grace of her jumps and overall skating. Yes, practice is responsible for the beauty of her lines, but that particular sort of physical build gives her an added advantage; it's the cherry atop the sundae.

    As much I like Michelle Kwan, I never fully warmed up to her skating because she has a stocky, short build.
    Kwan was beautiful. Shorter maybe but gorgeous, a bonbon really. :-)

  3. #48
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    While most people can be superficial, real skating fans can appreciate great skating without the superficiality. Judges should ESPECIALLY over come these superficiality and judge on the skill and overall presentation, in which things like costumes, hair, make up should absolutely come dead last in the judging criteria (even if it is the first thing general observer appreciate most on the skaters.)

    To some Michelle Kwan may not be super model proportioned, but she has a lovely everyday girl next door quality about her, with an openly inviting expressiveness that is very relateable and make every girl think she can be just like her. Heck she inspired me to take up skating, so I am sold. Yuna on the other hand I believe can be a bit intimidating when you see her skate for the first time, because how she carry herself on ice, she makes you wish you can 'try' to get close to be like her, rather than believe you can be just like her.

    I agree with the thread title: The art, the flow, the grace is gone according to what happened in Sochi. This quad should be interesting. Regardless of what you felt about Kim's programs at Vancouver, she has influenced the landscape of these youngsters these 4 years. How will Sotnikova's win influence?

    I blame the way PCS is abused these days not just at Olympics, if they actually reward art properly (Originality, Creativity, Risk, Refinement; more is not better, it must have meaning and purpose, quality realisation), flow, and grace etc I bet they will all come back in the next 2 years. Alot of these youngsters have decent techniques, but they will need something to motivate them to exploit the artistry side of the sport. They have no reason to if the judging do not reward them.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvtodd View Post
    Thankfully, two mature ladies with the whole package made the podium!
    That's the right attitude. Besides, since Yuna and Carolina and Mao performed so well in Sochi, the impression that it has left on me was greater. And in the end, isn't the legacy and impression you left on people more important than the result?

    Also, to comment on the title, I am hopeful that the ISU will spend this Quadrennial making adjustments to the criteria so that to a greater extent, the art, flow and grace of a program will be better considered and reflected in the marks.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilahozi View Post
    What are you talking about? I think Yuna Kim has THE most aesthetically pleasing body out of all the female skaters today, and one of the best in recent memory. Her extreme slenderness and willowy-ness is what reinforces the elegance, lightness, and grace of her jumps and overall skating. Yes, practice is responsible for the beauty of her lines, but that particular sort of physical build gives her an added advantage; it's the cherry atop the sundae.

    As much I like Michelle Kwan, I never fully warmed up to her skating because she has a stocky, short build.
    Though I respect your individual preferences, I can't understand calling someone as trim as Michelle Kwan "stocky," any more than Dorothy Hamill or Janet Lynn were stocky. They weren't as tall and narrow as YuNa or Carolina Kostner, but they were certainly not at the other extreme. In any case, one of the most beautifully fluid skaters of the last two decades was Yuka Sato, and she had a pretty rounded build--which didn't interfere one iota with the effect of grace that she conveyed. Actually, a very slim, long-limbed skater could just as easily look spidery or stiff if she didn't have the right finesse. So it's not an automatic advantage. It's an advantage to YuNa because she's a good skater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Though I respect your individual preferences, I can't understand calling someone as trim as Michelle Kwan "stocky," any more than Dorothy Hamill or Janet Lynn were stocky. They weren't as tall and narrow as YuNa or Carolina Kostner, but they were certainly not at the other extreme. In any case, one of the most beautifully fluid skaters of the last two decades was Yuka Sato, and she had a pretty rounded build--which didn't interfere one iota with the effect of grace that she conveyed. Actually, a very slim, long-limbed skater could just as easily look spidery or stiff if she didn't have the right finesse. So it's not an automatic advantage. It's an advantage to YuNa because she's a good skater.
    You aren't comparing apples to apples. Of course a stocky good skater will look better than a slim skater without finesse. All things being equal - skating skills, flow, technical excellence - a slender skater will cut a better-looking figure and line on the ice than a stocky one. That's a genetic advantage, and in my opinion, it's pretty unarguable.

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    Nadya, what I'm saying is that I don't think of Michelle as stocky, so I'm not characterizing her skating in that way at all. Same with Janet Lynn and Dorothy Hamill. They're just not tall and super-slender, but they're certainly not over at the other end of the scale.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Nadya, what I'm saying is that I don't think of Michelle as stocky, so I'm not characterizing her skating in that way at all. Same with Janet Lynn and Dorothy Hamill. They're just not tall and super-slender, but they're certainly not over at the other end of the scale.
    I agree Kwan is not at all stocky. What I had in mind was more of a comparison of someone like Harding to someone like Kim.

  9. #54
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    Grace, art and flow didn't yet go from figure skating.
    BUT if we look at the results of those who still excell in these features (Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner, Virtue/Moir, Pang/Tong) it will go VERY soon.
    Sad.
    Unexplainable and unacceptable......

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdeal View Post
    Grace, art and flow didn't yet go from figure skating.
    BUT if we look at the results of those who still excell in these features (Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner, Virtue/Moir, Pang/Tong) it will go VERY soon.
    Sad.
    Unexplainable and unacceptable......
    Right. It does seem like all the lyrical, graceful AND technically superior skaters are about to retire and be replaced by this onslaught of skaters that skate so obviously like the points are the only thing that matters. Hopefully Gracie can develop as an artist and get beyond the affected pretty princess shtick. Julia, eh...I think she is somewhat artistic in her dour, morose , grumpy sort of way, but it's not an artistry that I find particularly enlivening or appealing. The rest of the field...my goodness. Adelina, lol! I'm thinking it is pretty much darn near impossible to refine a skater who skates like a cross country truck driver, but miracles do happen!

    Then again, there are probably some unknowns waiting in the wings right now that could conceivably make figure skating about both the artistry and technical elements. Let's hope they don't take too long to emerge. Looking at the current OGM and everything she represents is too depressing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wootie View Post
    Right. It does seem like all the lyrical, graceful AND technically superior skaters are about to retire and be replaced by this onslaught of skaters that skate so obviously like the points are the only thing that matters. Hopefully Gracie can develop as an artist and get beyond the affected pretty princess shtick. Julia, eh...I think she is somewhat artistic in her dour, morose , grumpy sort of way, but it's not an artistry that I find particularly enlivening or appealing. The rest of the field...my goodness. Adelina, lol! I'm thinking it is pretty much darn near impossible to refine a skater who skates like a cross country truck driver, but miracles do happen!

    Then again, there are probably some unknowns waiting in the wings right now that could conceivably make figure skating about both the artistry and technical elements. Let's hope they don't take too long to emerge. Looking at the current OGM and everything she represents is too depressing.
    You're saying skaters should choose your approval over gold medal wins that fuel their livelihoods?

  12. #57
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    her marks were gifts but sort of evens out sarah hughes beating Irina slutskya, one of the greatest ever

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    There are certain advantages to certain innate gifts in almost every sport. I agree that Tarasova will look different than Yuna/Adelina on the ice even with the same exact choreograph that contains no jumps.

    I am open-minded as to changing the rules. We can have different divisions for different age groups (we already do it in many sports) and weights (like many martial arts and weight-lifting), for example. Competitive skating even bans certain moves that are considered too unique and dangerous when performed by a majority of athletes (like back flips).

    But rules must be established before the game, and it must apply to everyone equally. You do not change the rules in the middle of the game to your advantage. As far as I know, there hasn't been a rule of deduction for athlete's being too fit or pretty in skating.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdeal View Post
    Grace, art and flow didn't yet go from figure skating.
    BUT if we look at the results of those who still excell in these features (Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner, Virtue/Moir, Pang/Tong) it will go VERY soon.
    Sad.
    Unexplainable and unacceptable......
    I am counting on Radionova.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by wootie View Post
    Right. It does seem like all the lyrical, graceful AND technically superior skaters are about to retire and be replaced by this onslaught of skaters that skate so obviously like the points are the only thing that matters. Hopefully Gracie can develop as an artist and get beyond the affected pretty princess shtick. Julia, eh...I think she is somewhat artistic in her dour, morose , grumpy sort of way, but it's not an artistry that I find particularly enlivening or appealing. The rest of the field...my goodness. Adelina, lol! I'm thinking it is pretty much darn near impossible to refine a skater who skates like a cross country truck driver, but miracles do happen!

    Then again, there are probably some unknowns waiting in the wings right now that could conceivably make figure skating about both the artistry and technical elements. Let's hope they don't take too long to emerge. Looking at the current OGM and everything she represents is too depressing.
    This bothers me too-- but is it more the fault of the choreo, where so many point-garnering elements are packed into a program that the skater isn't given any space to flow or showcase extensions? Recent programs of many skaters feel disconnected from the music and generic, not because the skaters themselves are incapable of artistry, but because the program is geared towards scoring and not aesthetics.

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