Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 150

Thread: The art, the flow, the grace is gone

  1. #91
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    217
    I completely understand why Adelina picked the 3T 3T and I don't blame her. She didn't feel comfortable taking the risk, and that decision paid off.

    What does bother me alot is the base value of the 3Lz - less than a point more than a flip? but more than two points less than the 3A? I think it should be placed more evenly between the 3F and 3A - maybe 6.8 bv, and an downgrade for underrotation of 1.5, to put it on par with a 3F.

    That would do 3 things. 1) Reward the skaters who can actually pull it off. ex: would put a distance between Adelina's and Yuna/Caro's TES sp scores that more properly reflects what was executed on the ice. 2) Since the most difficult part is the take-off, even an underrotated 3Lz will still be worth as much as a 3F, so this encourages the skaters to attempt a true Lutz, even if they don't consistently get it all the way around. 3)It would force them to reconsider the stupid edge-call violation on flutzes and lips.

    In my mind, it makes absolutely no sense to punish a skater so severley for an underrotated *true lutz* compared to the slap on the wrist they get in GoE on a triple jump that completely omitted the thing that supposedly justifies the lutz's higher base value in relation to the flip - not to mention the very thing that defines the jump as a lutz in the first place (BOE).

    If anything, the edge-call violation should apply exclusively to lips, so that doing something harder than you intended (lip) only gets a minor deduction, while doing something easier than you intended (flutz) gets you a major deduction. To me that would be a million times more fair and more accurate way to judge the true merit of a skater's difficulty and execution.

    As for possible Zayak conflicts on lutzes that are called as flips - too bad, right? ETA***On second thought, maybe edge calls should have a symbol next to the bv, sort of like the downgrade symbol (maybe ^for a lip, and *for a flutz), and the bv adjusted accordingly, that way the skaters could attempt whatever they had normally planned without worrying about the Zayak rule (it is kinda harsh, and makes no sense if the 3Lz bv is already raised, so I retract that old argument lol).

    Quote Originally Posted by poleptina View Post
    From a dance perspective?
    Dancer here Michelle's hands were okay, but Jenni Meno's were amazingly beautiful Great port de bras, too.

    http://www.leigh-i-am.com/03LPSOI/03lpsoi1202022.jpg
    http://m4.i.pbase.com/u42/debscarbro...40R103415A.jpg
    http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/im...o_and_sand.jpg
    http://www4.images.coolspotters.com/...nd-profile.jpg

  2. #92
    Custard Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    990
    Quote Originally Posted by I♥Yuna View Post
    I completely understand why Adelina picked the 3T 3T and I don't blame her. She didn't feel comfortable taking the risk, and that decision paid off.

    What does bother me alot is the base value of the 3Lz - less than a point more than a flip? but more than two points less than the 3A? I think it should be placed more evenly between the 3F and 3A - maybe 6.8 bv, and an downgrade for underrotation of 1.5, to put it on par with a 3F.
    You're underestimating the difficulty of the 3A by doing this. I would go the other way; I think that the 3A is barely rewarded enough as it is, the Lutz about right, but the BV of 3T as a solo or initial jump should be lowered. Maybe drop the BV of a 3T to 3.7 and give a 0.4 bonus to 3T done as the 2nd or 3rd jump in a combination with the preceding jump being a triple (maybe even allow the bonus if the preceding jump is a 2A?). This would provide skaters more of an incentive to attempt triple-triples harder than 3T-3T. Similar changes for the 3Lo: make a solo or initial 3Lo worth 5.0 and give a 3Lo preceded by a double or triple a 0.6 bonus (I think this is reasonable because even the skaters who can attempt 3-3Lo combinations don't bother because their solo loops score higher anyway - just look at the men). Bring back the 'e' and '!' calls, giving 'e' flutzes and lips the severe deductions while '!' is less harsh. Make the negative GOE scaling harsher, especially on quads. Flutzers should be free to flutz but they should get a bit harsher of a deduction.

  3. #93
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by I♥Yuna View Post
    Nice.

    Speaking of line, port de bras, and dancers who skate, remember Katherine Healy?

    Casta Diva

  4. #94
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,253
    Quote Originally Posted by I♥Yuna View Post
    Dancer here Michelle's hands were okay, but Jenni Meno's were amazingly beautiful Great port de bras, too.

    http://www.leigh-i-am.com/03LPSOI/03lpsoi1202022.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Maybe someone should start another skating dress/fashion thread...

    Wang is unique in that she's the only high fashion designer out there who actually has a skating background. Her simple, uncluttered looks always appeal to me but understatement isn't everyone's cup of tea! I didn't know that she was still designing costumes -- hadn't heard much about her recently, although haven't exactly been focused on that, either.
    Vera Wang was elected to the U.S. figure skating hall of fame in 2009. At the time she said, "the only thing I liked better than skating was clothes."

    https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/wang.jpg

  5. #95
    go figure
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by KwanIsALegand View Post
    I am sorry but Adelina over Yuna just proves that what most of us cherish and love about figure skating is over. Done. It is all about racking up points. You do not have to be particular graceful, artistic or have great edges. You just have to do ridiculous spins and jumps and boom, you won the gold.

    The group I watched skating with tonight COULD NOT BELIEVE Adelina won. They were laughing at how ridiculous it was. She has zero polish, zero grace and absolutely no flow over the ice. It is as if she just went out and did her chores for the day, very workmanlike and rough.
    For that to beat Yuna or Carolina is disgusting and sad.
    This is a very bleak road that this beautiful sport is taking.
    As far as I am concerned, Adelina interpreted her music in an eye-pleasing, cheerful, lively way, and I found her movements fitting the theme. She skated with an energy and speed I don't recall from Kostner and Kim, for all their flowing. I really liked her take on the theme, and had no issue with her winning. I guess I don't belong to the "most of us" you mention.

  6. #96
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    To be honest, I thought Carolina telegraphed all of her jumps. Yes after re-watching the skates again, I think Yuna should have won. I still think Mao should have won FP though. Over all Yuna should have won because of her PCS. Yes, Adelina was awesome last night but her PCS isnt' on par with Yuna or Carolina. The only person(PCS) on par with Yuna and Carolina is Mao Asada.
    That would match my scoring. As much as I admire Carolina, I fail to see her elements being better than Yuna's. Yuna's jumps, spins, and footwork were all better than Carolina's. Carolina is a lovely skater but she has a trouble jumping to music. She tried mighty hard in the past with inconsistent results, and Lori Nichole did a great job this year and last year by disassociating music and Carolina's jumps so that Carolina can hit her jump timings. Then she sells her program with footwork. It is a great strategy that worked for her, but her elements are not the same quality of Yuna's, IMO. (they never have, TBH)

    Mao should have won the FS with her most difficult program if the judging panel were consistent, IMO.

  7. #97
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    894
    Vera Wang was elected to the U.S. figure skating hall of fame in 2009. At the time she said, "the only thing I liked better than skating was clothes."

    https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/wang.jpg

    Thanks for this, Mathman. Nice to know -- I didn't have a clue!

  8. #98
    Landing 3As in my dreams! skatedreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    894
    After checking out Mathman's link to the USFSA site & Vera Wang's hall of fame induction, I went off on a tear through cyberspace for more material about Wang and her costume designs. The blog entry linked below doesn't say anything you haven't seen before, but scroll down to the photo gallery, which contains a lovely pic of Yuna in her SP dress. What caught my eye was the position of her hands. Sharing the link b/c of several comments above re: hands/dance/posture.

    http://blog.sfgate.com/chronstyle/20...st/#20597101=3

    I believe the Yuna pic is the 4th in the series.

  9. #99
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    The 3T-3T may be the easiest 3-3, but it is still a difficult combination. It is scored higher in base point than any 3-2 combination other than a 3Axel-2 combo (I think). It is not "junior level" any more than the quad-toe is junior level for the men.
    We will agree to disagree on this. I stand by my position and I have many skater friends who agree with me. So I guess it is yet another debatable thing about figure skating. The point is with that jump combination Adelina should not have been almost even with Yuna Kim after SP.

  10. #100
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    941
    Quote Originally Posted by winky97 View Post
    We will agree to disagree on this. I stand by my position and I have many skater friends who agree with me. So I guess it is yet another debatable thing about figure skating. The point is with that jump combination Adelina should not have been almost even with Yuna Kim after SP.
    Not a surprise to see her saying that. Previously she insisted that while she thought Yuna was perfect yet she was "not bold enough" compared to Adelina. (whatever that means, she never explained) Now she says 3T-3T is a difficult combination. Hah. I am sure she wishes to say 3T-3T were as difficult as 3Lz-3T but that would be removing all doubts. So she stops short of that. But the implication is no less clear.

  11. #101
    Custom Title KwanIsALegend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by winky97 View Post
    Sarah Hughes used to be number 1 on my list of worst OGM ever, until Adelina unseeded her this year. I remember when Sarah won and as I recall, Irina made errors that justified Sarah being awarded the OGM over her. Adelina "winning" was just ridiculous.
    Yes, that would be like Sarah beating a clean, superskate by Michelle. Sarah won because she was clean and because everything fell into place that night for her to place first. Scott said it himself that Sarah will be sending Irina flowers for the rest of her life. I never cared for Sarah's skating, I always found something awkward and childish about it. She did have a great layback though but I don't agree that her spirals were all that spectacular. Especially since we had both Sasha and Michelle doing such strong solid gorgeous spirals at the time.

    I still subscribe to idea that 'it's not just about jumps' and without her jumps Adelina would be in 20th place. There is nothing there, she's rough, robotic and flat.

  12. #102
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the Rink
    Posts
    3,066

  13. #103
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,147
    Worst OGM is a funny thing though since it depends what you are basing it on:

    Most undeserving OGM ever: Sotnikova by 1000 times over, just because Kim and Kostner so CLEARLY beat her in this competition.

    Worst overall competition to win OGM: I would probably say Baiul in 94. An artistic masterpiece of a short but a badly two footed jump combination, then a LP with only 4 triples and no triple combination and an old program. She benefited greatly from the super weak field that year, along with some questionable judging.

    Worst overall skater to win the OGM: Poetzsch in 1980. Sorry just nothing remarkable about her, even on a good day. Not a stunning figures expert like Schuba either, even if she was the best in figures of her time. Even Sotnikova and Hughes are better skaters than her.

    Luckiest OGM ever: Hughes in 2002. She needed so many things to go perfectly for this to happen. Lucky ordinals in the short to be 4th when she could as easily have been 5th or lower as the 4-8 performances and ordinals from the judges were all virtually interchangeable (I thought Suguri and Sebeysten were far better in fact). Needing Slutskaya and Kwan to make major errors, and Slutskaya barely beat Michelle in the LP which was needed to move her into 1st, and she barely beat Slutskaya by .1 in the LP to not lose the gold outright to her as well.

    Worst free skater to win OGM: Schuba in 1972, but she is the best compulsory figure skater ever and that is something that should be revered and respected.

  14. #104
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by donezo View Post
    Oh, I still think Sarah Hughes is the worst ever. At least Adelina can fully rotate those triples! Adelina has the talent to be truly extraordinary, and she probably has more good years in her than Sarah Hughes did. Still, it's hard to argue against Sarah's win considering the circumstances and the scoring system. Irina skated poorly and Michelle fell, which was an unforgivable sin under 6.0. There was real pressure to give the win to the cleanest skate thanks to the pairs fiasco. Adelina's gold is suspect at best.
    I guess time will tell what Adelina's future as a skater will be. She is no doubt very athletic and can jump and spin like the Tasmanian Devil, I just simply do not care for her skating. I find it to be kind of ugly. I actually think that they screwed her over by giving her that OGM. Motivation can become an issue when you get the top prize. Adelina has some things that she really needs to improve in her skating. I wonder if the motivation will be there to improve now. I read a couple of interviews of hers after she got the OGM and she came off kind of arrogant, though that can be a translation issue. I understand that sometimes things get lost in translation from one language to the next. Since she is not going to Worlds we will have to wait to see what she does next skating season, but I don't expect much out of her. She may try to come back next year to compete, but I think she might end up more like Sarah, have a sub par post Olympic year and retire from competing. Maybe Sarah and Adelina will end up tied on my list as worst OGM ever when it is all said and done. Right now Adelina is holding it down because her OGM is so darn questionable, though Sarah is a very close second. I am trying hard to be open to Adelina showing me she does not belong there.

  15. #105
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by winky97 View Post
    We will agree to disagree on this. I stand by my position and I have many skater friends who agree with me. So I guess it is yet another debatable thing about figure skating. The point is with that jump combination Adelina should not have been almost even with Yuna Kim after SP.
    With no Russian judge on the panel, what is your theory on how that came to be?

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •