Petition to investigate judging gets record signings, makes Wall Street Journal headline
- Thread starter Ven
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
Even if 90% are from South Korea that means even excluding all the South Korean singers already about 6 times as many have signed than the Ten petition at Worlds last year (which was only about 35, 000, and that was a scandalous result too but it was simply bad judging, not a bought result like this one). I wouldnt be surprised if it reaches over 10 million which would still mean over 1 million non South Korean signers.
I hate 'home cooking' scores no matter where it's at. This a problem. This is not sport.
I'm sorry but the Yuna fans are making this move for change impossible. This is not going to go anywhere with all these silly comments....'she's the best' is not an argument.
I'm sorry but the Yuna fans are making this move for change impossible. This is not going to go anywhere with all these silly comments....'she's the best' is not an argument.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
Quite in a melted mood from Hersh, I'd say. The part you have quoted were the usual snarkiness from him. However, if you have read the entire article carefully, you'd have found that the opinions from the retired prominent skaters he chose to put into his article were mostly building the case to validate Adelina's win. With Scott Hamilton ending it in a high note by saying,
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
What Scott Hamilton personally feel was quite irrelevant compare with what the judging rules have written and how they were followed, isn't it?!
What Scott Hamilton personally feel was quite irrelevant compare with what the judging rules written and how they were followed, isn't it?!
So...you conveniently cherry-pick your facts and when someone calls you out on it, you backtrack and then claim whatever Scott Hamilton says doesn't matter?
Lawd.
PCS is the main subject of issue here. The entire article questions the levelling of certain tech elements, and most of PCS. What anyone "feels" is then a concern.What Scott Hamilton personally feel was quite irrelevant compare with what the judging rules have written and how they were followed, isn't it?!
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
I am just stating the facts based on evidence. I have read that sentence about Scott Hamilton's feeling. What he said about the rules and how Adelina has met what the judges were looking for are indisputable facts, when Scott Hamilton's feeling, or all you YuNa bots' feelings are just subjective feelings, not the rules.
Oh, I see. So now you are admitting that you are using your own feelings against the judges who were trying to follow the rules. In this case, Scott Hamilton has found that the judges have followed the rules. You have taken yourself out of legitimate argument.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
Are PCS and GOEs somewhat subjective? Definitely! It is a judged sport, like all the sports which are not measured by clock. It is the subjective views of the judges who were judging that particular competition counted. Your subjective views are subjective too, and your subjective views did not and will not count. If anyone cannot accept this, they'd better go to see the clock measured sports.
I'm trying to be civil. To explain, I quoted your diction "feel[ing]" to indicate Scott Hamilton's "checkboxes" meant TES. He didn't agree on PCS. You're missing the context.I am just stating the facts based on evidence. I have read that sentence about Scott Hamilton's feeling. What he said about the rules and how Adelina has met what the judges were looking for are indisputable facts, when Scott Hamilton's feeling, or all you YuNa bots' feelings are just subjective feelings, not the rules.
Oh, I see. So now you are admitting that you are using your own feelings against the judges who were trying to follow the rules. In this case, Scott Hamilton has found that the judges have followed the rules. You have taken yourself out of legitimate argument.
Most people come here and question the results based on valid reasons. If you "feel" that's "wrong", then that's how you "feel".
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2014
Posting again but I also signed and I am from Canada
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I don't understand. How does the fact that 90% of the signatories are from South Korea make the issue any less relevant and urgent, and the complaint less valid? Would a similar petition in favor of a US athlete be dismissed on the ground that 90% of signatories are from US? Please tell me who do you think should sign this petition? Philippinos? Canadians?
I agree and would ad that 90% is also an overstatement at least of recent signatures. It shows the 9 most recent signatories at any time. Currently 5 are from Korea 2 from USA, 1 from Denmark, and 1 from France.
On refresh again 5 from Korea, 1 from Georgia, 2 from USA, 1 from Senegal.
And on a final refresh, 6 from Korea, 2 from USA, 1 from Canada. I refreshed several times after this as well as I was composing this post. There were never more than 7 Korean signatures per 9 most recent signatures.
So my estimate is that closer to 1/3 of current signatories are from Korea (granted this is still high) and the rest are from elsewhere, at least currently, perhaps as the petition gains steam in the USA in particular.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
Please read the article again! Scott Hamilton was talking about component scores, not TES.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
Quite in a melted mood from Hersh, I'd say. The part you have quoted were the usual snarkiness from him. However, if you have read the entire article carefully, you'd have found that the opinions from the retired prominent skaters he chose to put into his article were mostly building the case to validate Adelina's win. With Scott Hamilton ending it in a high note by saying, “I looked at the way the component score (rules) are written, and Adelina checks off every box. It’s not as aesthetically pleasing as Yuna or Carolina, but she does everything the judges are looking for.”
Well if this actually got Scottie to look at the new rules, which he's ignored studiously since they were implemented a decade ago, maybe this whole thing has an upside after all.
This is getting ridiculous. The inflated PCS scores are a big problem and something the federations should take up with ISU. However, I think Adelina deserved to win, and would have done so even without the excessive boost on her PCS. Yuna and Carolina's technical content was inferior to Adelina's (Adelina had harder jump content and more difficult spins), and there was no passion in Yuna's tango, while Adelina performed the heck out of her program.
If artistry alone determined the medals the winner of the two combined programs would be Carolina for me--I have not been a Caro fan at all, but wow, she was beautiful in Sochi!
And Mao deserves some kind of "fighter of the decade" medal for her absolutely stunning free skate, which should have, imo, scored highest in both TES and PCS for night. Respect!
If artistry alone determined the medals the winner of the two combined programs would be Carolina for me--I have not been a Caro fan at all, but wow, she was beautiful in Sochi!
And Mao deserves some kind of "fighter of the decade" medal for her absolutely stunning free skate, which should have, imo, scored highest in both TES and PCS for night. Respect!
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
I just posted this on the WSJ blog. The problem with the media is that they are not giving the complete picture...only saying simplistically (on the Today Show for example, or in articles) that the results were controversial. Maybe this gives a more complete (and accurate) view of what happened:
The judging was atrocious last night. And that’s besides the short program where Sotnikova was intentionally placed very close to Kim, who skated a more difficult and better executed triple-triple combination:
- Sotnikova was not called for her under rotation on her 3Z + 3T combo beginning her program. While Mao Asada, who had the most difficult triple in the competition that no one else even attempted (the triple axel), found herself downgraded…after landing the most difficult program in women’s figure skating history at the Olympics: 8 triples. But, of course, she didn’t win the free skate because she came earlier, and her jumps were downgraded and scrutinized, while the Russian’s were not. So those arguing Soknikova had the best technical performance of the night need only look to Mao Asada’s judging (placed third) to find their points invalidated.
- The other Russian, Yulia, came first, and received a massive 135 score after falling on a triple, and stumbling out of another jump. This placed her over Mao Asada whose skate was undermarked, as I said, and even Ashley Wagner, who was cleaner than Yulia in both the long and short programs.
- The performance components judging was downright bad. Soknikova was massively held up here. She finished jumps hunched over. Her form and posture was at times poor. She two-footed a landing on the 3 + 2 + 2 combination. She broke form and waved to the crowd. There is no doubt her spins were superior to Yuna’s, but there was nothing wrong with Yuna’s LP footwork sequence that should have dropped it to a Level 3. The fact that Yuna only beat Soknikova by 0.09 in the performance components (the aesthetics and program choreography) was outrageous! Even if she had landed one triple more, the program quality and the execution were way over exaggerated in the judging, with added grade of execution bonuses.
- Lastly, the judges themselves: It was reported by Christine Brennan of USA Today that one judge was the wife of the Russian Skating Federation president. And another from Ukraine had been banned for a year after being influenced at Nagano in 1998. Four judges (from Britain, the U.S.) were not given spots to judge the long programs. Get the facts in print because this shouldn’t be just South Koreans who are upset with the influence of the Russians.
The judging was atrocious last night. And that’s besides the short program where Sotnikova was intentionally placed very close to Kim, who skated a more difficult and better executed triple-triple combination:
- Sotnikova was not called for her under rotation on her 3Z + 3T combo beginning her program. While Mao Asada, who had the most difficult triple in the competition that no one else even attempted (the triple axel), found herself downgraded…after landing the most difficult program in women’s figure skating history at the Olympics: 8 triples. But, of course, she didn’t win the free skate because she came earlier, and her jumps were downgraded and scrutinized, while the Russian’s were not. So those arguing Soknikova had the best technical performance of the night need only look to Mao Asada’s judging (placed third) to find their points invalidated.
- The other Russian, Yulia, came first, and received a massive 135 score after falling on a triple, and stumbling out of another jump. This placed her over Mao Asada whose skate was undermarked, as I said, and even Ashley Wagner, who was cleaner than Yulia in both the long and short programs.
- The performance components judging was downright bad. Soknikova was massively held up here. She finished jumps hunched over. Her form and posture was at times poor. She two-footed a landing on the 3 + 2 + 2 combination. She broke form and waved to the crowd. There is no doubt her spins were superior to Yuna’s, but there was nothing wrong with Yuna’s LP footwork sequence that should have dropped it to a Level 3. The fact that Yuna only beat Soknikova by 0.09 in the performance components (the aesthetics and program choreography) was outrageous! Even if she had landed one triple more, the program quality and the execution were way over exaggerated in the judging, with added grade of execution bonuses.
- Lastly, the judges themselves: It was reported by Christine Brennan of USA Today that one judge was the wife of the Russian Skating Federation president. And another from Ukraine had been banned for a year after being influenced at Nagano in 1998. Four judges (from Britain, the U.S.) were not given spots to judge the long programs. Get the facts in print because this shouldn’t be just South Koreans who are upset with the influence of the Russians.
:agree:
- Status