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Thread: Petition to investigate judging gets record signings, makes Wall Street Journal headline

  1. #16
    Riveted vegarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Yes they were on the list of judges.

    She has been a judge for 20 some years...Figure skating is such a small sport tha guess what judges are often coaches, federation officials etc. The Russian judge was always going to be supporting Adelina. The Korean judge Kim. That's the sport. Nobody's found fault with her judging in terms of corruption.
    Let me ask you this question that I've asked you before. I'm genuinely curious because you've never answered it. You don't have to answer, but I'm going to ask one final time and stop.

    If Yuna, or Caro or Mao were skating for Russia -- or Yuna was a Russian skater defending her Olympic gold, do you think even then the scores for Adelina and Julia and Yuna would have been exactly the same? That Adelina would still be deemed to have skated much better than Yuna? You don't think Caro would've scored higher at all? That Mao wouldn't have been dinged on the jumps?

  2. #17
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegarin View Post
    Let me ask you this question that I've asked you before. I'm genuinely curious because you've never answered it. You don't have to answer, but I'm going to ask one final time and stop.

    If Yuna, or Caro or Mao were skating for Russia -- or Yuna was a Russian skater defending her Olympic gold, do you think even then the scores for Adelina and Julia and Yuna would have been exactly the same? That Adelina would still be deemed to have skated much better than Yuna? You don't think Caro would've scored higher at all? That Mao wouldn't have been dinged on the jumps?
    I think there's home crowd scoring yes. Look at Asada at the GPF. I think that as long as Sotnikova was Russian, she was going to get huge scores, so I'm not sure how much it would change the overall results if Kim also got some inflation. Kim's scores are extremely high already how much more to inflate? So I think Russian Kim, Russian Kostner, Russian Sot, all would have inflated marks. The favored one doesn't always win at home-see Sarah Hughes.

    For Sotnikova to have lost due to PCS, she would have had to have had the lowest PCS in the final group. Lower than Yu-lia's lower than Golds. In no way was this fair. Sotnikova won this on the technical mark. She "jumped" her way to that title.

  3. #18
    Riveted vegarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I think there's home crowd scoring yes. Look at Asada at the GPF. I think that as long as Sotnikova was Russian, she was going to get huge scores, and a Russian winning is a Russian winning either. I'm not sure how much more they could inflate Kim's scores in order for her to come on top.
    Okay. Let see if this applies in 2018 and if that would be just as acceptable as it is in Russia.

  4. #19
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegarin View Post
    Okay. Let see if this applies in 2018 and if that would be just as acceptable as it is in Russia.
    It doesn't sound like Kim wants to come back....Sotnikova may show up though. She'll only be 21. Or, one of the many other young Russians.

  5. #20
    Riveted vegarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    For Sotnikova to have lost due to PCS, she would have had to have had the lowest PCS in the final group. Lower than Yu-lia's lower than Golds. In no way was this fair. Sotnikova won this on the technical mark. She "jumped" her way to that title.
    For god's sake. Are you hearing yourself? So it's so completely wrong to be unfair to Adelina but it's okay to be unfair to Yuna? Yuna didn't have to win against Adelina, but PCS should've been at least slightly more proportional. Yuna had 0.08 higher than Adelina in PCS. Adelina even got the same points as her in Choreo. Even you have to admit that Adelina didn't have much of a choreo to speak of, yes?

    I don't necessarily think Yuna was "robbed" of anything, but clearly, they were going to give it to one of the two Russians if they skated clean no matter how others skated, and Yuna was scaled back accordingly. So was Caro. No way around it, and it was just way too obvious how they went about it. How's that not problematic?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I think there's home crowd scoring yes. Look at Asada at the GPF. I think that as long as Sotnikova was Russian, she was going to get huge scores, so I'm not sure how much it would change the overall results if Kim also got some inflation. Kim's scores are extremely high already how much more to inflate? So I think Russian Kim, Russian Kostner, Russian Sot, all would have inflated marks. The favored one doesn't always win at home-see Sarah Hughes.

    For Sotnikova to have lost due to PCS, she would have had to have had the lowest PCS in the final group. Lower than Yu-lia's lower than Golds. In no way was this fair. Sotnikova won this on the technical mark. She "jumped" her way to that title.
    No, she should have been scored much lower in PCS in both the SP and LP. She achieved personal bests in those segments when her programs shouldn't have stood up as well. Sotnikova may have won the TES (albeit by not much given her flutz and stumble) but she was gifted in PCS. Please explain how her PCS should be equal to Yuna and above Mao and Carolina.

  7. #22
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    Maybe the Koreans could mint Yuna a platinum medal like Russia did with Plushenko. That victory was way more controversial than this one. I'm pretty sure Quad controversy is a much more pertinent issue than this PCS BS the Yunabots are harping about.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chairmanmao View Post
    Maybe the Koreans could mint Yuna a platinum medal like Russia did with Plushenko. That victory was way more controversial than this one. I'm pretty sure Quad controversy is a much more pertinent issue than this PCS BS the Yunabots are harping about.
    This is the clearest example yet of how "this PCS BS," as you call it, can be manipulated and affect scores. COP has effectively addressed the problem of how to score technique. You can argue with the findings of the tech panel, but at least people know who they are and how they score. This whole Olympics--in every skating discipline--just illustrates how badly the IJS needs to rethink how to score performance. PCS and GOE are far from some little BS criteria.

  9. #24
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    Kim herself was gracious enough to accept that she had beaten by a better skater on the night. However, Yunabots do deserve a gold medal of their very own for one of worst and most bitter displays of whinging in sporting history. I think the IOC should mint the medal especially for them - I suggest that they make the medal in the form of sour grapes - how very apt. I think the IOC should then have the author of the petition flown in for the closing ceremony especially, where they can accept the gold medal on behalf of all Yunabots around the World - the Gold medal for the worst display of sour grapes of the 2014 games

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Kim herself was gracious enough to accept that she had beaten by a better skater on the night. However, Yunabots do deserve a gold medal of their very own for one of worst and most bitter displays of whinging in sporting history. I think the IOC should mint the medal especially for them - I suggest that they make the medal in the form of sour grapes - how very apt. I think the IOC should then have the author of the petition flown in for the closing ceremony especially, where they can accept the gold medal on behalf of all Yunabots around the World - the Gold medal for the worst display of sour grapes of the 2014 games
    I am bitter with Mao's free skate scoring 8 points lower than Adelina. You should feel bitter too. This is not right.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Kim herself was gracious enough to accept that she had beaten by a better skater on the night. However, Yunabots do deserve a gold medal of their very own for one of worst and most bitter displays of whinging in sporting history. I think the IOC should mint the medal especially for them - I suggest that they make the medal in the form of sour grapes - how very apt. I think the IOC should then have the author of the petition flown in for the closing ceremony especially, where they can accept the gold medal on behalf of all Yunabots around the World - the Gold medal for the worst display of sour grapes of the 2014 games
    Mao is going to the Worlds...

    If nothing else at least figure skating fans are showing their distrust and hopefully the judges won't try to carry over the Olympics score into Worlds (often happens) and cheat Mao or other skaters of a World medal.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambivalent View Post
    I am bitter with Mao's free skate scoring 8 points lower than Adelina. You should feel bitter too. This is not right.
    Yes, I absolutely loved Mao's free skate too! So emotional… will miss her a lot!

    The only problem I have is the score differences… Mao got 8pts lower than Adelina. Yuna got 5pts lower than Adelina. Something is not right.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambivalent View Post
    I am bitter with Mao's free skate scoring 8 points lower than Adelina. You should feel bitter too. This is not right.
    Unlike Yunabots - I am not obsessed. Mao lost - so what. The problem with Yunabots is their total obsession with one individual - they call her a 'Queen'. They regard her almost as a goddess, with godlike qualities - perfection, unbeatability, infallibility. That is why they just cannot stomach the fact that she lost fair and square - because it's absolutely shattered their image of her as perfect and unbeatable. And given their obsession - its devastating for them. But ultimately, she is, like the rest of us, a human being - not perfect, fallible, beatable. She accepts that, and accepted defeat with good grace. Her obsessed fans obviously have not. They need to follow Kim's excellent example, get over it, and move on.

  14. #29
    Rinkside
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    Quote Originally Posted by jehan215 View Post
    Yes, I absolutely loved Mao's free skate too! So emotional… will miss her a lot!

    The only problem I have is the score differences… Mao got 8pts lower than Adelina. Yuna got 5pts lower than Adelina. Something is not right.
    May be you should read the protocols and try to understand the difference in the score before saying it is not right? I love that - let;s give the medal by signing a petition or by vote of fans, who has the most, then this athlete wins...

  15. #30
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    If you can live with this kind of judging, so be it.

    I cannot live with that, so I will do whatever I can do, even if it cannot make any difference.

    Sot did not win only by wrongful PCS. (of course her PCS should have been lower in both SP and LP).

    Her TES was not judged correctly either. (As many people including myself pointed out in the other thread. No edge call, no UR call, lv 4 stsq only to the Russians, extremely inflated GOE, automatic +3 GOE from a judge etc.)

    Tech panel was Russian in Russian soil. Now that part is already crazy.

    I do not want to see this happening ever again.

    I signed the petition. My friends in UK signed the petition too. I hope that this small act can make strong Feds to worry about possible backlash, at least little bit, before they go way out of line like this time.

    What a shame.

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