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Thread: Question about Ashley Wagner from a skating dummy

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    Ashley does not have a natural body type for skating. She has a more stout athletic, womanly figure. Skating is notorious for being run by bony light weight teenagers. They have an easier time jumping than "mature" women because their BMIs are low. That said Ashley's main issue with her skating is under rotation on. Say a decade ago, she could be a serious contender for a medal. But with the change in judging system, skating programs have become more difficult. You have to land at least one triple triple in every program to be at the top of your contention, which the legendary Michele Kwan barely ever did. Again, Ashley simply doesn't have the spring/proportional lightness to complete these jumps with ease. I suspect it MIGHT just be a matter of her conditioning. Maybe if she got a better trainer/had more self discipline she would be better. But yeah, the sport is riddled with 18+ year old women who hit a ceiling when their boobs/hips come in, and retire.
    Tonya Harding had a body like Ashley but she was a good jumper much better than Ashley. She did triple axels and triple triples and very high jumps. It's got to be more than the body type. There must be some brain body connection issues as well.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinerette View Post
    Tonya Harding had a body like Ashley but she was a good jumper much better than Ashley. She did triple axels and triple triples and very high jumps. It's got to be more than the body type. There must be some brain body connection issues as well.
    This is true. I think it's a matter of coaching and conditioning. Ashley already said she's staying til 2018. I suspect she'll get angry enough likely being 3rd best in the country next year and get a new coach that conditions her and makes her stronger.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinerette View Post
    Tonya Harding had a body like Ashley but she was a good jumper much better than Ashley. She did triple axels and triple triples and very high jumps. It's got to be more than the body type. There must be some brain body connection issues as well.
    She learned to skate in Alaska, her skating was screwed from then on. She learned poor technique and has been fighting to relearn ever since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinnerA View Post
    Not to go off topic too much, but I did a little research (on the MK Fan Page) and Michelle Kwan did complete a 3T/3T in competition 11 times.
    Well she also had like a decade long career. The 3t3t is nice, but skaters across the board are doing harder combos more regularly these days. One of the reasons Adelina's score in the short program pissed me off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinerette View Post
    Tonya Harding had a body like Ashley
    Not even close. Tonya's legs - especially her thighs - were massive compared to Ashley's. She was also much more muscular in general. Ashely is very toned, but she doesn't have nearly the muscle mass that Tonya had.

    https://31.media.tumblr.com/fa35d78d...MeN1qzy8r9.jpg
    http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/ashle...a-27784546.jpg

    In any event, there are people with various body types doing fully rotated jumps. (And skaters with various body types that have UR issues). For example, I don't think Kaetlyn Osmond has UR issues and her body type is certainly not stick-thin. In fact, she only started landing her triples consistently once her figure matured, and has actually said that it was her body maturing that helped her get the jumps.

  6. #21
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    She's above average in everything but not excellent in anything.

    flutz
    perpetual 2foot landing on flip, loop, toe, and even sal
    has a habit of under-rotating the 2A pre-2012
    skating skills aren't the same level as the top tier
    cannot rotate 3x3
    programs with Mills were good in a sense that they masked her weaknesses, but moving forward, she can't do S&D again, and she can't do Black Swan 4 years in a row, so I think she is at the end of the row. The way they parted, Mills probably will not give her any programs in the next few years.

    Limited TES. Limited PCS. This is why she can't even medal in transition year. And when the Russian caught up, she's dropping further down in the ranking. And with Gracie positioned as US #1, I see her placing in the 6-12 range from now until she retires.

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    http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/ash...lympic-journey

    LMAO. Ashley commentating her free. Calls her last jump series a "bit sketch" and laments about how much she hates performing the spins. Very funny even with the little shade thrown at Gracie and Polina at the end.

    Of course that video will just fuel her haters anymore. Can't wait to see all the "omg she's a *****" posts.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8in View Post
    Ashley does not have a natural body type for skating. She has a more stout athletic, womanly figure. Skating is notorious for being run by bony light weight teenagers. They have an easier time jumping than "mature" women because their BMIs are low. That said Ashley's main issue with her skating is under rotation on. Say a decade ago, she could be a serious contender for a medal. But with the change in judging system, skating programs have become more difficult. You have to land at least one triple triple in every program to be at the top of your contention, which the legendary Michele Kwan barely ever did. Again, Ashley simply doesn't have the spring/proportional lightness to complete these jumps with ease. I suspect it MIGHT just be a matter of her conditioning. Maybe if she got a better trainer/had more self discipline she would be better. But yeah, the sport is riddled with 18+ year old women who hit a ceiling when their boobs/hips come in, and retire.
    But Joannie is even more muscular and she jumped quite well, iirc?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by imisscohen View Post
    This is true. I think it's a matter of coaching and conditioning. Ashley already said she's staying til 2018. I suspect she'll get angry enough likely being 3rd best in the country next year and get a new coach that conditions her and makes her stronger.
    She might retire within 2 years as well if she gets passed by other skaters. For some reason it seems like she has been around for a while- wasn't she battling Katy Taylor or some person like that. I think she has been at this level already 6 or 7 years.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    She might retire within 2 years as well if she gets passed by other skaters. For some reason it seems like she has been around for a while- wasn't she battling Katy Taylor or some person like that. I think she has been at this level already 6 or 7 years.
    She debuted internationally and nationally in the 2007-2008. So this season is her seventh. .

    I'd never underestimate Ashley. She finished behind Mirai Nagasu and Caroline Zhang, who were thought to be the next upstarts in figure skating, in 2007 Nationals (Jr. level) and she finished behind Mirai and Rachael Flatt in 2010 and Alissa, Mirai and Rachael in 2011. She eventually beat all of them

    Certainly Gracie and Polina are likely to pass her given they are younger, but nothing's ever a sure thing.

    (And certainly Mirai could also have a second act if she works on her weaknesses).

  11. #26
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    I felt like the end of this season was all about survival for Wagner. She survived. I think she's got enough juice to make it to 2018, but it remains to be seen whether she can make the team -- probably going to come down to whether USA keeps 3 spots or if other girls falter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imisscohen View Post
    I felt like the end of this season was all about survival for Wagner. She survived. I think she's got enough juice to make it to 2018, but it remains to be seen whether she can make the team -- probably going to come down to whether USA keeps 3 spots or if other girls falter.
    The good news is that the Americans place three skaters in the top ten at the Olympics. If they keep skating at this level, the future is bright indeed.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by imisscohen View Post
    http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/ash...lympic-journey

    LMAO. Ashley commentating her free. Calls her last jump series a "bit sketch" and laments about how much she hates performing the spins. Very funny even with the little shade thrown at Gracie and Polina at the end.

    Of course that video will just fuel her haters anymore. Can't wait to see all the "omg she's a *****" posts.
    That's funny...she should seriously consider TV work once she retires. I think she's got the personality and would have a lot of interesting insight. And, if she doesn't make it to 2018 as an athlete, she may still get to go as part of NBC's omnipresent Olympic crew...

    In any case...Wagner is one of those skaters who has to work at everything to get it. I think she did well considering her circumstances...she must have been freaking out, but to stand up on the biggest stage of your career, she should be proud of that even if she is displeased with the result (I think one could make a case for 5th, although a medal was out of reach).

    She got to go to the Olympics, barely, and I know she wanted a medal but with how the top 3 skated it wasn't going to happen regardless. At least she's got the team bronze (which she was a critical part of that effort).

    Not sure she'll fare much better at worlds to be honest, but if she can skate like she did at the Games (or better) and more mistakes are made at the top, I guess you never know.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    But Joannie is even more muscular and she jumped quite well, iirc?
    Joannie and Kaetlyn both have big, strong jumps. It's not simply about body type. Being thin can make quick rotation easier, but being muscular can give you more power, height, distance, etc. As I said above, Kaetlyn only really started landing her triples once her body matured. So while for some people, growing and filling out causes them to lose jumps, for others it works the other way.

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