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Thread: Cohen's Swan Lake #2

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I seriously think if any of you posters on this thread did not see the Qualifying Round of Sasha's Swan Lake then yoyou missed an extremely great Sasha skate. It was super clean and she nailed everthingy in her own style. It was one gorgeous program. Later she did an impeccable Malaguena that had the audience on their feet. It was the LP where she lost the zip of the previous two.

    What Robin and Sasha have to work out is why that happened and correct it in future.

    Anyway, it made TT's day with Shizuka.

    Joe
    Last edited by Joesitz; 03-28-2004 at 12:57 PM.

  2. #32
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I didn't so much as mind the music cuts, I actually liked them, however....the choregraphy and beauty of what the program had once been had gone out of the window.


  3. #33
    Hopeless fan Doggygirl's Avatar
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    Eyria...

    Of course I have no idea what was actually going through Sasha's head following her LP when her facial expression clearly registered dissapointment. I don't think it's necessarily fair to jump to the conclusion that the dissapointment all about "I didn't win." I am fairly sure that any elite skater knows as it's happening that they are delivering what they are capable of or not. So isn't it just as possible the Sasha's disspointment at that stage was about a performance she knew was sub-par for her rather than OMG I've not WON?

    And on wanting to win....I have to assume every competitor in the game wants to win. I'm sure those that are not at a level to win World's know it, but want to move up the ranks or have those types of goals to work towards. Let's face it, you can't tell me that any of the ladies in the final flight, especially the top three didn't want to win because it was a possibility for all 3. So when you have the potential to win, and you give a sub-par performance for you, and you already know that a competitor skating before you laid down an excellent program, wouldn't dissapointment be natural?

    DG

  4. #34
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    ITA with most, esp. DP

    The dress was not that georgeous work of art. Her SP was one of the few few thrills of the ladies, but her LP was quite downgraded.

    I did not see the qualifyings. Worlds has a QR? Was it on air? Where? Iunderstand this is where Michelle made a big mistake?

    Anyone know where to find the QR results? Great thread ladies!

  5. #35
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    The new version's music cut and choreography do not interpret "Swan Lake" very well. It sounds and looks like the longer version of her short program. Sasha's move in the long are too jerky. It should have flow and soft interpretation.

    Switching around the jumps and simplifying the choreography did not help Sasha run a clean program. TT's version is a lot better. Even Sasha might miss one jump if she run that version, she can still gives audience a very very enjoyable 4 minutes.

  6. #36
    Busted sarahmistral's Avatar
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    I too totally agree with most...

    interesting points, the lot of you:D

    She also comes home from Worlds knowing that simplifying her long programs is not the answer to her consistency problems.
    I pray she does, Rgirl, because it is a pity if she comes away with a different, more negative lesson. I agree with Doggygirl on the following as well:

    So when you have the potential to win, and you give a sub-par performance for you, and you already know that a competitor skating before you laid down an excellent program, wouldn't dissapointment be natural?
    Absolutely true, Doggygirl; it is her skate that she wasn't able to give with the same all-out emotional intensity and fire of the first two, which must have upset her after proving that it was possible to stay at that emotional level for both a short and a long program.
    I'm going to be succinct for a change (hell must be freezing over)...well I'll try anyway I think Robin is a great coach for Sasha, but she seriously needs another choreographer. I think Sasha starts out competitions with intensity, excitement, and joy, real joy of skating, but as far as the later round foibles, I think that, neurological problems aside, there is a huge psychological component to her troubles in the final round related to everyone's enormous expectations of her.

    Seeing her talent, people don't seem as willing to let her develop into a more and more consistent skater like a less naturally gifted skater like Shizuka, who persevered and is only now reaping the ultimate benefit of that perseverance--they want to see that brilliance that Sasha so obviously has in spades (they being everyone from Dick and Peggy to internet posters to, of course, Sasha herself and her family and friends) NOW; sure, it may take another skater 6 years, but you've been around for three or four, and you're so exciting and talented and flexible and incredible and charismatic; GET IT TOGETHER. No patience. No tolerance. No understanding how difficult this sport is PERIOD, whether you're talented or not, and how much more difficult it must be when the world's just on your a## bit--ing you out every time you stumble, wondering what the hell is wrong with you, as if you'd deliberately waste the gold mine of talent God gave you, with incompetence as a competitor, nerves, Dick's famous "being on another planet", Peggy's focus etc.

    On those last two, their impatience really bugs me; they're supposed to be calling mistakes and things well done, not getting on the same old topics. OT, it INFURIATED me how, as soon as Sokolova fell (skating after MK in the short), Terry Gannon (the one of the ABC bunch I truly cannot stand, EVER) quipped, almost relieved and VERY sarcastically, "oh well, that's another placement we won't have to worry about", or something to that effect, and then the bunch just started in on how bizarre MK's scoring was, TOTALLY ignoring the skater whose performance it was THEIR JOB to call--I was as disgusted as I've been with commentary since SLC.

    Back to Sasha, I feel bad for her, and perhaps I too am guilty of wanting to see more of programs like her SP this year, but hey, who wouldn't. However, I don't go on the "she's always stumbling" bandwagon and taunt her. Most of this taunting may not reach her...even though internet taunts hopefully won't be read by her, Dick and Peggy's commentary is another story..

    did you all get a load of how, after asking her about the Salchow, Lisa Guerrero didn't even close with a final congratulations but cut back to the booth, where they then went to interview Michelle and ask her about the SP for the fortieth time??? Really rude and mean, given Sasha's great efforts and silver medal this week--it seems to me that this anecdote proves my talent theory; to the commentators, anything short of gold is Sasha's fault because she can't concentrate or is on another planet--she should be gold medalist, OUR gold medalist; she screwed up again, let's ask her about that and then go talk to the wronged but always beloved MK--I have nothing against MK, enjoy her skating for the most part and her personality from what I've been able to see of it, not knowing her personally, though I think she shouldn't roll her eyes at the "silly" application of the rules when she did go over the time limit; makes her seem like she doesn't think such little rules should apply to her, but overall, I think she handled herself like a champion and a professional this week, with all the strange goings on and unfortunate but costly early errors in the qr.

    Again, back to topic, I applaud Sasha for having a Worlds any other skater would love to have had (MK for one, this year). As with any immensely talented person, especially who's been sooooo anointed (and with her talent, it's natural, but no joyride for the person who gets such a tremendous weight of expectations placed squarely on her shoulders--it's as if she doesn't get to worry only about competing and fighting; everyone in the skating world is so taken aback, so impressed with Sasha's incredible natural gifts and ability that, no matter how focused she is on skating--which I believe she is--and no matter how much she loves to go out and skate and give emotionally--she said Malaguena SP at these Worlds was the skate she's given the most to emotionally ever, it's VERY HARD to deal with all the pressure of landing difficult jumps in the home stretch if it feels like everyone's watching and waiting for her legacy, her reign as the Greatest Ever (by virtue of all those natural gifts) to begin officially.

    It's not just the home stretch to her winning a major competition, plain and simple; it's finally pleasing all those people watching all over the world who are just wondering, "when is she going to get it together; she is sooooo talented", epitomized by Dick and Peggy, who as Eyria put so well:

    Of course, this is not made any easier by Dick, Peggy, and the rest of the media, who hype Sasha to the skies before each performance and then rip her to shreds each time she doesn't achieve perfection. For whatever reason, I don't think any other skater is subjected to the same kind of relentless scrutiny that they give Sasha.
    Well said, Eyria; I think the reason, as I stated in several run-on sentences above, is her incredible talent, and the fact that, as Phil Hersch, who from what I heard is a huge MK fan (but also a skating expert and appreciative of good performances across the board, I would think), put it, Sasha is the only real X factor out there in skating to have such an obvious natural edge as far as "the whole package" is concerned.

    I think she had a wonderful Worlds; making the jump from 4th to 2nd is a great achievement even for Sasha, given not just her past but everyone's expectations of her talent, and she really fought to the end, had a bobble (which almost every other top skater did as well), but for her, most unfortunately, it's always the *Inconsistency Albatross* that will loom ominously over her head, partly because so many people want to see her at her peak ALL THE TIME because they view her talent as so superior that they think that equals "the most dominant skater ever". It is worth remembering that the only other person who skated more cleanly than Sasha through all three phases of the competition was the champion, and that's how it should be, IMO.

    Staffwise, she definitely needs a sports psychologist and a choreographer, and to put all that rambling in a more succinct form, I think that the burden of expectation of the entire skating world because of her immense talent and ability are as much a factor as any neurological or other problems she may have concentrating. Her past remains an issue because people like Dick and Peggy and so many others are always bringing it up; it's like they just want another solid gold medalist, to have bragging rights over someone with such potential to dominate and world-beat.

    I should get a .5 deduction for going over the message length limit, if there were one

    Sarah

  7. #37
    Tripping on the Podium
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    sarahmistral
    lol about your final comment...excellent post! u hit the nail right on the head, u took the words right out of my mouth. i have felt that way for a while but i didn't quite know how to put it into the right words like u did. everyone seems to put so much pressure on Sasha and have such high expectations of her, yet, at the same time, they wonder why she's not consistent...hmmm, what could her problem be? i wonder.... lol

  8. #38
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    This thread has me PML. It's not as if the program were at all complex to start with.

  9. #39
    bugs are smarter than we are bronxgirl's Avatar
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    But isn't the ability to handle pressure and expectations one of the marks of a champion? (At least according to the so-called experts.) Personally, I think Sasha should ignore any one else's expectations but her own - as long as she truly feels she has done her best, then it shouldn't matter what any commentator says. I know that it's way easier said than done.
    This is a sport everyone on this board enjoys, but it's not brain surgery. If Sasha never wins another medal, so what? Nobody died!! She has brought much enjoyment to millions of her fans (as have every other skater out there in the competition) and they should all have a tremendous feeling of accomplishment and joy from this. If they can't feel that, they will never be able to handle real pressure (JMHO)

  10. #40
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    did you all get a load of how, after asking her about the Salchow, Lisa Guerrero didn't even close with a final congratulations but cut back to the booth
    ........I picked up on that too and thought how abrupt was that. They didn't even bother to say congrats for her silver medal. This was quite an accomplishment for her and should have been treated as such.............42

  11. #41
    TriGirl Rinkside
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    Another thought on the same old, same old. Sasha's "inconsistency." When I watched her short, I was SO impressed by her jumps (flutz aside). None of the wonky landings that I feel have characterized her jumps in the past. They were gorgeous and had a wonderful run-out. Sounds like the QR was similar. Why is it inconceivable that she just has a case of the nerves?

    I cannot fathom the pressure that comes with trying to win a World gold medal. From a personal perspecitive, I'm not sure how I'd fare. Ice is slippery! I was very nervous as I was getting myself ready for a bike time trial yesterday. Really silly to be honest, but I have expectations of myself, and I don't like to fail. Riding slower than my competition is a failure. Clearly I'm competitive (!) and that translates into quite a set of nerves which does not help my performance. Thank goodness I don't have ice to deal with.

    My point in all that babble, is that it seems reasonable to me to think that Sasha's issue could be as simple - well, simple to identify, not so easy to fix - as nerves. She has shown her wonderful skating ability on the practice ice numerous times, and in the first two rounds of this year's worlds (amongst other places). The wonky landings seem to my untrained eye to be a sign of stiffness which could result from being nervous. The _____ - insert the big words Rgirl used - analogy seems interesting, but could that be the case if she is capable of doing a full, perfect LP at some times but not others?

    It makes me sad that she gets a bad rap for her "inconsistency" because it just seems so difficult, to me anyway. I don't know how someone like Michelle does it. In any case, I'd think a sports phychologist would benefit her. I wish her luck and would love to know her secrets if she figures it out

  12. #42
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    My initial reaction to the LP was how bland she looked and how the program was stripped of its nuances. Anything stripped is different when you try to put it back together. The music cut was a heavier and uninteresting. The cuts didn't lift the cheorgragphy. For the most part, hear jumps were okay. The spirals perfect and the spins were good. She didn't have that sparkle and fire I have come to enjoy. I know that program probably was better in QR, so where was the passion.Yeah, Wagner knows what she's doing. Sasha won that silver medal, and I can't wait to see a full Wagner program next fall.

  13. #43
    Procrastinating b/c of Worlds
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    Originally posted by Joesitz
    I seriously think if any of you posters on this thread did not see the Qualifying Round of Sasha's Swan Lake then yoyou missed an extremely great Sasha skate. It was super clean and she nailed everthingy in her own style. It was one gorgeous program. Later she did an impeccable Malaguena that had the audience on their feet. It was the LP where she lost the zip of the previous two.
    I wasn't criticizing the performance, I was criticizing the program, or to say, a lack thereof. It is one thing to perform great, it is another to have a good program (See Michelle Kwan's program the last 2 seasons. Great performances, but poor programs).

    Her QR performance may have been good, but that doesn't disquise the fact that her program is her worst she's ever done since 2000. It doesn't hide the fact that it has no choreography, and doesn't even bother to have musical, let alone program, coherence.

    TV

  14. #44
    TriGirl Rinkside
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    Originally posted by Rgirl
    Anzwaz (in honor of Joe's reports from Germany--great job Joe)

    BTW, I didn't mind the split falling leaf. In the Q round, photos of Sasha show her with her back leg straight and her front leg above hip level--pretty spectacular, at least in the photos on Yahoo--so it seemed like it was better in the Q round.
    re: the Anzwaz

    Here's a link to the QR split falling leaf - http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com.../mdf505386.jpg

    Maybe it's just the picture, but I stand by my 'she's got a magnificant Russian, keep it until the left leg is straight on the split falling leaf.'

    Interesting points about Jenny. I can't imagine what the loss of her mother has done to her. I've noticed the weight loss this year too. I hope she's okay.

  15. #45
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    Someone please help my memory, but I think she deliberately lost some weight to help with the hip injury. I vaguely remember a fluff piece or interview where she talked about that. I'm hoping I didn't dream it. Anyway, I think she is trying to find the fine line between too little weight for strength in her programs and too much mostly due to the hip.

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