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Thread: Cohen's Swan Lake #2

  1. #61
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by imanta
    Joesitz---did seeing Sasha's QR give you a better impression of the LP than many of us seem to have based on just seeing the last LP?
    Imarita - I started a thread on The Edge so that everyone who saw Sasha's QR and Shizukas"s LP to talk about if one is better than the other. Hope those who saw both reply.

    The QR was fabulous. It was the new version and she skated it brilliantly. She did not skate the LP brilliantly, unfortunately. So I wouldn't blame the music version. Something was wrong with Sasha and the LP. She had the gold in the palm of her hands. Whatever happened, I am hoping Robin and she work it out.

    Joe

  2. #62
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    Robin could just switch the jumps around to secure a clean performance, rather than changed the entire program to spanish style Swan Lake.

    One reason that sasha could not bare to run clean programs three days in a row is her tiny little build. For the past two years she lost weight a lot. She is getting skinier and skinier. Around 2002, she was more fuller and her jumps were more right and high. since then she switched coach and lose weight gradually, and jumps got smaller and smaller. Sasha is a very beautiful young lady, her natural look and lines are very attractive already. She really does not need to keep skiny to be beautiful.

  3. #63
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    It's a shame that Robin changed the original Swan Lake. It was beautiful. This interpretation didn't even come close.

  4. #64
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    Jesslily;

    Sasha still isn't as bad as Kirk in terms of thinness, but it seems interesting that Sasha has discussed how careful she became with her diet after she suffered her injury. I think these skaters are losing weight b/c a lighter body lessens the impact of the jumps. I'm not sure if that's the right direction to go. One thing I noticed with the Japanese girls and the European girls (except Kostner) was that they have heavier, more substantial figures (great muscles) and still were able to jump higher and land the big jumps. I don't understand why American girls feel the need to lose weight: our girls were the smallest in the competition.


  5. #65
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    Joesitz--thanks for your response! I'll go check out the thread over in the Edge.

    I agree that the US Women did seem to be some of the thinnest in the competition when comparing to the more athletic-looking/muscular few. I don't know if that's just due to their natural smallness, or if it points to something else. Shizuka and Miki seem to have more muscle and are very powerful. Fumie I think, however, is on the "skinnier" side (not in a bad way by any means--not trying to start something). Sasha seems very aware of nutrition, eating correctly, etc.....I think she looks very small but still healthy as does Michelle imo. Jenny has definitely lost some weight. She has always been on the thin side. Don't know if her recent weight loss is intentional or not?

  6. #66
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    I personally feel that both Sasha and Jenny are too thin. They look terribly frail out there, especially Jenny. Others I know who watch skating have commented on this as well.

    Michelle, in my opinion, looks great and has one of the nicest figures among the ladies. She looks very trim but still feminine, with some curves to her.

    Everyone's body type is different, of course, but it does seem like some of the best jumpers these days are actually bigger girls like Shizuka and Miki and Sarah (in her prime). I'd like to see the American girls start to focus more on building strength and power in their bodies, rather than dieting down to nothing.

    On the other hand, even Sasha and Jenny look super-healthy compared to Qing Pang. Every time I see Pang I cannot help but notice how unnaturally thin she is. She looks like she never eats; she is nothing but skin and bones. I don't know how she even has the energy to skate. I find her thinness so disturbing that it actually detracts from my enjoyment of her skating.

  7. #67
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    Yes, Cohen and Kirk are thin, but not as thin as Pang. And did anyone who saw Junior Worlds notice how painfully thin Mai Asada was? Her arms and legs are like sticks, making her head and shoulders look huge by comparison. I cringed every time she jumped, thinking her legs would snap. Miki Ando and Shizuka Arakawa are both very healthy-looking (although we saw entirely too much of Shizuka's bum because she's outgrown her costume), but Mai Asada looked skeletal.

  8. #68
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    OMG -- since it was brought up -- my houseplants are bigger around than Qing Pang's legs!!

  9. #69
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    Shen and Pang are both entirely too thin. Based on the ABC fluff piece, the Chinese federation monitors everything they eat and they are not allowed to gain a pound. I'm not sure if the girls are naturally that thin or if the federation is only allotting them 3 dumplings a day. There are lots of people who are naturally very thin. There are also a lot of Asian women who are painfully thin but they eat normally so maybe the federation selected girls who would naturally have that body type.

    I pick on Jenny b/c she is NOT naturally thin. When she skated with the Scotvolds, she had a very normal body and now she is unbelievably thin. Sasha still looks normal but when I think about it , she was heavier and stronger when she was with Nicks because she got more height on her jumps (as pointed out by another poster) and now her jumps are smaller.

    MK has a normal body, but that's an anomoly in US skating. A lot of the other girls are starving themselves to land 3-3 combos.

    Also weight is a huge issue. When Nicole Bobek competed, Dick and Peggy would always comment on her weight. When Nicole was thinner, the first thing Dick would say is "Nicole lost 10 pounds, she *really* trained for this event." In Brennan's book, Scotvold said he would look at the size of Tonya's a$$ to determine whether she was jumping well. He said "Five pounds could turn Tonya from the biggest jerk into the best skater."

    I know skaters have to keep a trim body. However it's not weight alone that makes a good jump : it's muscle to height ratio. Small , stocky skaters are at an advantage like Midori Ito and Tonya Harding.

  10. #70
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    Originally posted by Joesitz
    Imarita - I started a thread on The Edge so that everyone who saw Sasha's QR and Shizukas"s LP to talk about if one is better than the other. Hope those who saw both reply.

    The QR was fabulous. It was the new version and she skated it brilliantly. She did not skate the LP brilliantly, unfortunately. So I wouldn't blame the music version. Something was wrong with Sasha and the LP. She had the gold in the palm of her hands. Whatever happened, I am hoping Robin and she work it out.

    Joe

    Sasha wasn't the favorite at that point. She usually skates better when there's no pressure just like everyone else. I think that's why she skated better. Last year and the beginning of this year there was a lot of talk about Sasha but after Nationals that died down...a lot.

  11. #71
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    i quite liked it

    Well it seems like I am the only one who liked Sasha's new LP with the new arrangements. I personally thought it was more sophisticated, bit more inventive and unusual compared to the old one. The old one seemed more musical I guess, but the new one has more ta-da kind of music which I suppose suits Sasha not too badly. They coincide with her spirals as well so it does look good. As for her jumps, well I guess this is as good as it gets for her and maybe now that she's cast out the demons of no-medal-at-worlds she can progress on. It's a big step. I have no doubt she'll do triple triples next season.

  12. #72
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    Re: i quite liked it

    Originally posted by adamlondon
    Well it seems like I am the only one who liked Sasha's new LP with the new arrangements. I personally thought it was more sophisticated, bit more inventive and unusual compared to the old one. The old one seemed more musical I guess, but the new one has more ta-da kind of music which I suppose suits Sasha not too badly. They coincide with her spirals as well so it does look good. As for her jumps, well I guess this is as good as it gets for her and maybe now that she's cast out the demons of no-medal-at-worlds she can progress on. It's a big step. I have no doubt she'll do triple triples next season.
    I have no idea how you can get this impression. It is far from a big step. The program is watered down, with no choreography or transitions. All the little nuances were gone. The music was much more powerful, but it with that, all the suddlety was gone. She took a nice program and made it absolute garbage. I'm not criticizing the performance, I'm criticizing the lack of a program. I don't understand how chaotic and hectic are sophisticated, when she does nothing to accentuate the music at all. She simply relys on her elements in the utterly empty program. It's "unusual" because it's nonsensical and far from coherent.

    TV

  13. #73
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    To all of Sasha's Fans and Others -

    You had to see her skate the Revised Swan Lake in the Qualifying Round. She was nothing short of brilliant. If any of you have a master tape of that skate, you have a valuable piece of preperty.

    There is no comparison between the Quali and the LP. Sasha gave two different skates.

    Joe

  14. #74
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    I have to say I'm very glad that I downloaded "Swan Lake" in its original version as she skated it at Campbell's. The program definitely suffered from the different music cuts - I terribly missed the tender and not-so-bombastic beginning. It's such a shame that Wagner had to lay her hands on TT's masterpiece. The new choreografy was so ordinary, it was making me sad. Why were, for example, the spiral and the new invented spin (when she puts her bended arm over her head) moved towards the end of the program? That is so SashaSkatingSpectacular - no subtlety at all.

  15. #75
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Hey, Sidejehoka, where have you been lately? Glad to see you back. Did you get to go to Dortmund in person?

    Mathman

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