The article is blatant lies. The same as Scott Hamilton on TV with his blatant lies. They literally just make up whatever palatable story than can come up with to cover up the rigged judging.
Guess what...this time it's not working!
How Sotnikova beat Kim - Move by Move
- Thread starter blue_ice
- Start date
The article is blatant lies. The same as Scott Hamilton on TV with his blatant lies. They literally just make up whatever palatable story than can come up with to cover up the rigged judging.
Guess what...this time it's not working!
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Yeah, but those "equal" jumps Adelina did were better than Kim's. The height isn't comparable
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- Sep 22, 2010
Because height is the primary criteria for evaluating jumps. Forget flow, edging, speed, air position, landing, etc.
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- Feb 19, 2010
It is undeniable that Adelina has huge jumps, even if one can argue that they don't always seem well controlled (but since she landed them, they were), but it's not like Kim has puny jumps and Kim's ones have smoother flow out. Kim's solo lutz was a bit scratchy, but then again Adelina had a step-out.
Yes she lands, with two foot.
It's called "Figure skating" for a reason.
Yuna's jumps have beautiful flows and shape. Not to mention they travel further.
Don't get me wrong, I do think Adelina is extremely talented but the height of her 2A+3T jump is the only thing that grabs my attention compared to other qualities of yuna, mao and kostner.
They're trying really hard. What the heck. Really, if they keep tear down Yuna and Caro, do they actually think it might eventually stick?
Look, Adelina already got gold. Apparently she's that good. If you're assured in that win, there's no need to try to tear Yuna down again and again since obviously she is apparently not that good a skater.
Then it should be obvious to everyone with eyes that Adelina is much better and Yuna just doesn't cut it, right? Why bother trying to convince us with words, then?
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
vegarin said:
What are you talking about?! There are some people who try to defend Adelina, that's all. Who keeps tearing down Yuna and Caro?!
God, I even thought too that Yuna/Caro should have been above Adelina, but all this bitching and whining against the poor girl made me REALLY want to defend her (and you can write beneath your text 'oh, this is not against Adelina' all you want, a good junk of posters here are bashing Adelina). The marks were unjustified, but spaming a dozen different GS threads with the same comments again and again will not do the trick. The ISU is way to afraid of big (fair) changes, and as long as the majority of peittions focus on Yuna getting the gold over Adelina, this is the only thing where the ISU will even act like they care about it. The rest will go on the same way it did before.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2011
Said this before but I'll say it again: we cannot deny Mao had a fantastic LP and for it to score 7 points below Sotnikova was all sorts of WRONG WRONG WRONG.
:thumbsup:
also I wish Yuna changed her lay back spin it looks... bad :no: the leg position (always), back position, and arm position were all dull. I was surprised at Ashley Wagner's lay back. Really nice almost like Sasha's, but of course Sasha Cohen is the best at lay back spins imo.
And don't forget Shizuka Arakawa, along with Sasha.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2009
Mao is the one who should've come close to Yuna's 2013 Worlds LP score, not Sot.
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- Feb 14, 2014
Me too, Yuna's long program in Vancouver was epic and Sotnikova just outscore thar with her junior performance
I think this article is descriptive rather than analytical in nature. A title of "This is What the Protocols Said The Skaters Did" is probably more accurate.
Those who are familiar with skating, of course, are not disputing what the protocols said. They are saying that the protocols do not reflect what happened on the ice, and that there are prima facie grounds for suspicion as to the integrity of those numbers, both in the context of the skaters' bodies of work, as well as in the composition of the judging/technical teams. The former provides grounds for skepticism about the accuracy of the scores, and the latter a reason to question transparency and motive.
I do agree with the idea that the case for scrutinizing the scoring is much stronger because the seeming irregularities are not isolated; they apply to a larger group of skaters, and suggest a systematic and intentional differentiation between Russian and non-Russian skaters. While people tend to focus on Adelina vs. Yuna because it involves the gold medal, we should remember that this is a much wider and deeper issue, especially if our aim is to disagree with the results with the best hope of having some practical effect on the system's shortcomings.
The other suggestion that I would like to make is that this is also an issue that is larger than "them thievin' Russians". Power and wrongdoing (which tend to go together) both abhor a vacuum, and will always move to fill it when given the opportunity. The current case sparks the outrage that it does, in my view, because the perpetrators did not even have the decency or sense of shame to even make an attempt at plausibility. Nevertheless, the bedrock issue is that the ISU has created a lawless atmosphere (Cinquanta: don't you think that a competent relative of a Fed leader is better than a complete idiot? A statement worthy of Vito Corleone) that breeds contempt for competitive integrity.
My suggestion to those who (like me) are unhappy with the present state of affairs: think like a RICO prosecutor
.*
The article, it seems to me, is written for those who are unfamiliar with the scoring of figure skating. The issue, of course, is that in presenting a breakdown of scoring the way that they did, the author can appear to be giving his (and the New York Times') blessing for the result. Which may, or may not, be true.
While I understand the purpose of the article, it seems to me that, given the controversy that the paper itself has reported on in other articles, this is roughly analogous to the following: Some eggs are missing from the henhouse. The fox is questioned as to what happened. His answer: no eggs are missing, and here's why. The farmer takes the answer at face value, and goes away satisfied to report the explanation to the chickens.
*("RICO" refers to the "Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act" which is routinely used in the US to prosecute criminal organizations, including mobsters and Wall Street fraud)
Those who are familiar with skating, of course, are not disputing what the protocols said. They are saying that the protocols do not reflect what happened on the ice, and that there are prima facie grounds for suspicion as to the integrity of those numbers, both in the context of the skaters' bodies of work, as well as in the composition of the judging/technical teams. The former provides grounds for skepticism about the accuracy of the scores, and the latter a reason to question transparency and motive.
I do agree with the idea that the case for scrutinizing the scoring is much stronger because the seeming irregularities are not isolated; they apply to a larger group of skaters, and suggest a systematic and intentional differentiation between Russian and non-Russian skaters. While people tend to focus on Adelina vs. Yuna because it involves the gold medal, we should remember that this is a much wider and deeper issue, especially if our aim is to disagree with the results with the best hope of having some practical effect on the system's shortcomings.
The other suggestion that I would like to make is that this is also an issue that is larger than "them thievin' Russians". Power and wrongdoing (which tend to go together) both abhor a vacuum, and will always move to fill it when given the opportunity. The current case sparks the outrage that it does, in my view, because the perpetrators did not even have the decency or sense of shame to even make an attempt at plausibility. Nevertheless, the bedrock issue is that the ISU has created a lawless atmosphere (Cinquanta: don't you think that a competent relative of a Fed leader is better than a complete idiot? A statement worthy of Vito Corleone) that breeds contempt for competitive integrity.
My suggestion to those who (like me) are unhappy with the present state of affairs: think like a RICO prosecutor
.*The article, it seems to me, is written for those who are unfamiliar with the scoring of figure skating. The issue, of course, is that in presenting a breakdown of scoring the way that they did, the author can appear to be giving his (and the New York Times') blessing for the result. Which may, or may not, be true.
While I understand the purpose of the article, it seems to me that, given the controversy that the paper itself has reported on in other articles, this is roughly analogous to the following: Some eggs are missing from the henhouse. The fox is questioned as to what happened. His answer: no eggs are missing, and here's why. The farmer takes the answer at face value, and goes away satisfied to report the explanation to the chickens.
*("RICO" refers to the "Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act" which is routinely used in the US to prosecute criminal organizations, including mobsters and Wall Street fraud)
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
Is this 'expert' Adam Leib guy the same skating coach who was reported in NYT for sexual harassment? http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/02/sports/when-coaches-cross-the-line.html
The technical difference between the 2 programs as planned was less than 3 points. Less than 3 points. The actual difference came from Adelina being generously called and Yuna the opposite and Adelina receiving unwarranted, per the guidelines, GOE. So the technical difference is just as shady as the blatantly inflated PCS. Why is it about Yuna vs. Adelina? The egregious inflation in PCS, GOE and very generous calling of Adelina's elements also affected other superior skaters. USA has already watched the sport die there, they are being strong armed to defend a decision they know is wrong trying to save the sport so 9 out of 10 of their opinions are about just that: cover up. These news outlets mostly rely on figure skating "experts" in their statements who have clearly been told "say it is legit", even some initially stating there was something wrong are now towing the party line. Johnny tells a Korean broadcast that Yuna is the true champion but the opposite on US television. He clearly wants to keep making money in Korea. NBC Olympics site has a side by side video of their LPS that is even more depressing, like skaters of completely different levels, imagine the SPs side by side. Bottom line, it's as easy as this: if Adelina skated exactly the same but for ant other country, would she be Olympic champion? If you said yes to that, we'd love to see you back on Earth sometime.
Article from Japan Times.
Scandalous outcome: Skating judges steal Kim’s title, hand it to Sotnikova
SOCHI, RUSSIA – Yuna Kim got robbed on Thursday night. Plain and simple.
What happened to her at the Sochi Games was a complete and utter disgrace. Another black eye for figure skating.
The elegant and magnetic South Korean superstar gave a wonderful performance in very difficult circumstances, not making a single mistake, yet came away with only a silver medal in what can only be deemed a scandalous result.
Russian gold medalist Adelina Sotnikova was impressive in her free skate, but was she five points better than Kim?
No way. How over the top was Sotnikova’s score in the free skate? Sixteen points better than her previous personal best.
Give me a break. What should have been a glorious moment for Russian skating was taking on a decidedly different tone the morning after, with some very disturbing information emerging.
I spoke with several journalists in the Main Press Center on Friday morning and it was nearly unanimous — they almost all thought that Kim had beaten home favorite Sotnikova.
Before I even made it back to my hotel after the competition, the debate was already beginning to rage.
With the arrival of Kim and Mao Asada many years ago, skating in Asia has been enjoying a boom. But the sad reality is that in many other places it has been languishing. The results in women’s singles here will only make promoting it harder. Every time something like this occurs it does exponential damage.
Millions of people around the world are watching and presuming it is all legitimate. Skating is a great sport — one that teaches important values to youngsters about dedication, hard work and sportsmanship — and to see it besmirched again is very disturbing.
What are the young skaters and fans who watched the free skate supposed to think?
What bothers me most is that here was this great champion, an incredible symbol for skating, giving it her all one more time. Kim is a millionaire many times over and certainly didn’t need to compete. She is set for life.
But she knew she was still young enough to give it another go and wanted her fans to have another chance to see her on the greatest stage. She put her legacy on the line in a bid to become only the third woman ever to retain the Olympic title (after Norway’s Sonja Henie and Germany’s Katarina Witt). It was a gutsy move.
Brennan, the author of the highly acclaimed skating book “Inside Edge,” didn’t mince any words in her analysis of the free skate, telling it exactly like it was.
“What happened tonight in the women’s figure skating competition was worse than the 2002 Salt Lake City pairs judging scandal because, this time, we’ll never find out who might have done what because all the judges’ scores are now anonymous,” she wrote.
Brennan also quoted Joseph Inman, an American international skating judge as saying, “I was surprised with the result.”
Kim nailed both of her programs and should have retained her title. That is the bottom line.
Three-time U.S. champion Michael Weiss sensed something amiss with this Twitter comment on Thursday. “Yuna — two clean skates as defending Olympic champ wins gold, right?”
That’s the way it is supposed to be. Legendary American skater Dick Button, a two-time Olympic champion (1948, 1952), has been an analyst now for decades. The messages he tweeted said it all. “At one point, I had doubts regarding Yuna Kim — not after today. She was superb, elegant, charming. Never a wilt.” His feelings about the gold medalist were different. “Sotnikova was energetic, strong, commendable, but not a complete skater.”
What folks need to understand is that Sotnikova didn’t just emerge from oblivion. She has been around for a few years. She is a four-time Russian champion and the 2011 world junior champion. But in her three seasons skating on the senior circuit, she has never even won a Grand Prix event, much less medaled at a major international competition. She has qualified just once for the world championships as a senior, finishing ninth in 2013.
Did she suddenly become great overnight? Good enough to beat Kim in the Olympics? Your common sense will tell you no. Once you arrive there, the rest is not difficult to deduce.
Kim showed her true class with her comments after the free skate. She could have stirred up controversy, but was magnanimous in defeat. “The score is given by the judges,” she said. “I’m not in the right position to comment on it. And my words can change nothing.”
The reality is the trap for Kim was set on Wednesday night with the unfairly high score that Sotnikova received in the short program.
Kim was fabulous skating to “Send in the Clowns” and should have had a lead of at least four points heading into the free skate.
Instead, both Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova received inflated marks and the former was less than half a point behind Kim in second place. It was as if once it became apparent that Lipnitskaia wasn’t going to be a contender for the gold, the impetus swung to push Sotnikova. There is nothing that damages sports more than predictability, the preordained result. That’s what you saw on Thursday night.
Kim could not have gotten out of the Iceberg Skating Palace with the gold medal if she had left with it in an armored car.
I almost felt as if I were watching a play where Kim was going to be brought out and sacrificed as the final act.
That would have gone along with the story line, but Kim would have none of it. She displayed the heart and courage of a true champion in an amazing effort.
What happened next was a damn shame.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...kims-title-hand-it-to-sotnikova/#.UwiwcWJ_tjM
Scandalous outcome: Skating judges steal Kim’s title, hand it to Sotnikova
SOCHI, RUSSIA – Yuna Kim got robbed on Thursday night. Plain and simple.
What happened to her at the Sochi Games was a complete and utter disgrace. Another black eye for figure skating.
The elegant and magnetic South Korean superstar gave a wonderful performance in very difficult circumstances, not making a single mistake, yet came away with only a silver medal in what can only be deemed a scandalous result.
Russian gold medalist Adelina Sotnikova was impressive in her free skate, but was she five points better than Kim?
No way. How over the top was Sotnikova’s score in the free skate? Sixteen points better than her previous personal best.
Give me a break. What should have been a glorious moment for Russian skating was taking on a decidedly different tone the morning after, with some very disturbing information emerging.
I spoke with several journalists in the Main Press Center on Friday morning and it was nearly unanimous — they almost all thought that Kim had beaten home favorite Sotnikova.
Before I even made it back to my hotel after the competition, the debate was already beginning to rage.
With the arrival of Kim and Mao Asada many years ago, skating in Asia has been enjoying a boom. But the sad reality is that in many other places it has been languishing. The results in women’s singles here will only make promoting it harder. Every time something like this occurs it does exponential damage.
Millions of people around the world are watching and presuming it is all legitimate. Skating is a great sport — one that teaches important values to youngsters about dedication, hard work and sportsmanship — and to see it besmirched again is very disturbing.
What are the young skaters and fans who watched the free skate supposed to think?
What bothers me most is that here was this great champion, an incredible symbol for skating, giving it her all one more time. Kim is a millionaire many times over and certainly didn’t need to compete. She is set for life.
But she knew she was still young enough to give it another go and wanted her fans to have another chance to see her on the greatest stage. She put her legacy on the line in a bid to become only the third woman ever to retain the Olympic title (after Norway’s Sonja Henie and Germany’s Katarina Witt). It was a gutsy move.
Brennan, the author of the highly acclaimed skating book “Inside Edge,” didn’t mince any words in her analysis of the free skate, telling it exactly like it was.
“What happened tonight in the women’s figure skating competition was worse than the 2002 Salt Lake City pairs judging scandal because, this time, we’ll never find out who might have done what because all the judges’ scores are now anonymous,” she wrote.
Brennan also quoted Joseph Inman, an American international skating judge as saying, “I was surprised with the result.”
Kim nailed both of her programs and should have retained her title. That is the bottom line.
Three-time U.S. champion Michael Weiss sensed something amiss with this Twitter comment on Thursday. “Yuna — two clean skates as defending Olympic champ wins gold, right?”
That’s the way it is supposed to be. Legendary American skater Dick Button, a two-time Olympic champion (1948, 1952), has been an analyst now for decades. The messages he tweeted said it all. “At one point, I had doubts regarding Yuna Kim — not after today. She was superb, elegant, charming. Never a wilt.” His feelings about the gold medalist were different. “Sotnikova was energetic, strong, commendable, but not a complete skater.”
What folks need to understand is that Sotnikova didn’t just emerge from oblivion. She has been around for a few years. She is a four-time Russian champion and the 2011 world junior champion. But in her three seasons skating on the senior circuit, she has never even won a Grand Prix event, much less medaled at a major international competition. She has qualified just once for the world championships as a senior, finishing ninth in 2013.
Did she suddenly become great overnight? Good enough to beat Kim in the Olympics? Your common sense will tell you no. Once you arrive there, the rest is not difficult to deduce.
Kim showed her true class with her comments after the free skate. She could have stirred up controversy, but was magnanimous in defeat. “The score is given by the judges,” she said. “I’m not in the right position to comment on it. And my words can change nothing.”
The reality is the trap for Kim was set on Wednesday night with the unfairly high score that Sotnikova received in the short program.
Kim was fabulous skating to “Send in the Clowns” and should have had a lead of at least four points heading into the free skate.
Instead, both Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova received inflated marks and the former was less than half a point behind Kim in second place. It was as if once it became apparent that Lipnitskaia wasn’t going to be a contender for the gold, the impetus swung to push Sotnikova. There is nothing that damages sports more than predictability, the preordained result. That’s what you saw on Thursday night.
Kim could not have gotten out of the Iceberg Skating Palace with the gold medal if she had left with it in an armored car.
I almost felt as if I were watching a play where Kim was going to be brought out and sacrificed as the final act.
That would have gone along with the story line, but Kim would have none of it. She displayed the heart and courage of a true champion in an amazing effort.
What happened next was a damn shame.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...kims-title-hand-it-to-sotnikova/#.UwiwcWJ_tjM
TES is not what really is in question though. Well aside of no GOE taken off by most judges for Sotnikova's flutz and extremely high GOE for her step sequence which didn't have the speed and flow of many other skaters.
It's Sotnikova's PCS that were ridiculously high for what she has shown.
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