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Thread: Have the values of figure skating been betrayed?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ? What country do you think the OP is from?
    There a lot of new posters popping up in the last few days. All of them seem to be against the ladies result.

  2. #17
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    another bot?
    Yes. Anyone who disagrees with the ladies results is a bot.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Yes. Anyone who disagrees with the ladies results is a bot.
    I wish my boss considered me working like an AI program. Alas, I can get the compliment I want but not from whom I want
    I can only say I understand those new posters Maybe it looks like spamming but I didn't see the story told from this particular perspective in this forum so I went for a thread and besides, to compare with other sports sites, this forum looks rather calm to me (I mean it as a compliment).

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna K. View Post
    I wish my boss considered me working like an AI program. Alas, I can get the compliment I want but not from whom I want
    I can only say I understand those new posters Maybe it looks like spamming but I didn't see the story told from this particular perspective in this forum so I went for a thread and besides, to compare with other sports sites, this forum looks rather calm to me (I mean it as a compliment).
    I was being sarcastic with that remark. These boards are generally friendly, but this is the day following the ladies event so it is a bit more heated and caustic than normal. It's only been over a day so some people's emotions are still raw and some fans are naturally defensive. Some of them are now going about labeling everyone who disagrees as a "bot", with no sense of irony.

    You brought up a very good question but since it is based on an assumption that there was something very wrong about the ladies results, be prepared to take the heat or come back later when the controversy has subsided. It won't take long, I think.

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    Thanks for your positivity, Krislite. I'll think about it

  6. #21
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    The controversy will not be going away, Krislite. This is not an Ice Dance scenario where both teams are perfect and it just comes down to personal preference, nor a 6.0 system with Lipinski vs. Kwan where it also came down to personal preference ... this is a situation where we have code of points and Sotnikova's numbers do not add up.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    The controversy will not be going away, Krislite. This is not an Ice Dance scenario where both teams are perfect and it just comes down to personal preference, nor a 6.0 system with Lipinski vs. Kwan where it also came down to personal preference ... this is a situation where we have code of points and Sotnikova's numbers do not add up.
    There will always be doubts and suspicion. When I say "subside", I mean only on an emotional level. In any case let's not drag that discussion here. There are dozens of threads on it.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    For some reason NBC and some main U.S. outlets are trying to reduce the competition to this argument.
    They say yes Yuna had better artistry, but then they don't mention Adelina's PCS was essentially the same score, 2nd best of all time.

    They don't mention Costner did 7 triples too. Mao 8. Both finished way behind Sotnikova.

    They don't mention Yuna's harder technical content in the SP over Adelina. Better artistry...again only 0.28 difference.

    It's all ex-post-facto ******** to try and squash a controversy and justify rigged results. I have yet to see any so-called "expert" give a detailed point by point breakdown of why they thought the judging was fair and accurate.

    There is a code of points, right?
    Holy cow. Adelina Sotnikova got the second highest PCS of all time?!? That just needs a minute of silence and reflection right there.
    If I understand your statement correctly, then Yu-Na Kim's was the highest, and it was only 0.09 points better. So... Adelina Sotnikova's PCS was 0.09 points away from being the best PCS ever.
    As I've said before, Adelina does not deserve any hatred towards her, since she did not award herself those marks. She never won a World or Olympic Medal, so even the Bronze - which I think she deserved - would have made her really happy.
    But this little piece of information just feels like another big rock in my stomach... I'll get back to you when I have digested

    P.S.: to the OP: the (mostly not figure skating knowledgeable) media say that Sotnikova did 1 more triple than Kim. They make it sound like where Sotnikova had a 3Lo, Kim had no jump at all. Indeed, the TES advantage of Sotnikova for her 3Lo should have been almost entirely eaten up by the points she lost for stepping out of her 3F2T2Lo combo.
    If only counting the number of triples, they could also have mentioned that Carolina Kostner had the same amount, and she did not have any stepout like Adelina did... But I'm afraid that doesn't contribute to the point they're trying to make, so they don't bring it up. Well, that, and the fact that the graceful Carolina got lower PCS than Adelina, and that Mao and Akiko got way lower PCS than Adelina...
    This is all so sad...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    The controversy will not be going away, Krislite. This is not an Ice Dance scenario where both teams are perfect and it just comes down to personal preference, nor a 6.0 system with Lipinski vs. Kwan where it also came down to personal preference ... this is a situation where we have code of points and Sotnikova's numbers do not add up.
    Couldn't agree more. If this were a 6.0 judging, I personally would have no problem with Sotnikova winning. However, this is CoP and the points and levels were handed so inaccurately it almost seems fishy.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Holy cow. Adelina Sotnikova got the second highest PCS of all time?!? That just needs a minute of silence and reflection right there.
    If I understand your statement correctly, then Yu-Na Kim's was the highest, and it was only 0.09 points better. So... Adelina Sotnikova's PCS was 0.09 points away from being the best PCS ever.
    Yep that's right Frenchie, Adelina's PCS with a step out and junior choreo ... I mean we're talking about Adelina here ... was 0.09 from the highest PCS of all-time.

    And I agree about the not hating on her part ... I wanted her to get bronze before the competition! Would have LOVED that. She's one of my favs. But not like this.

  11. #26
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    To answer the title of this thread -NO

  12. #27
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    Figure skating has no values. That much was clear long before the Sochi ladies LP, in fact long before the Sochi figure skating event. Just look at the Chanflation and other issues of the sport since the new code. Whichever federation is willing to pay the most wins. Performances arent even relevant. Fans will just have to award their own medals and ignore the corrupt judges who dont have a clue what they are doing anyway (sorry that is wrong, they know exactly what they are doing but they could just as well judge the events from a hotel room far away from the arena with no TV in the room).

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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    To answer the title of this thread -NO
    I'd prefer you to give extended answer if you think the values are still here.
    I think absolute negativity is very bad in this situation. There should be values and fighting for them

  14. #29
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    No. Adelina won fair and square. Her tech was superior. Period. That's still sport. One of the most subjective, but SPORT. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. I don't think Yuna was superior. I f I had to choose, I'd put
    1) Caro
    2) Adelina
    3) Yuna
    What do you think?? Or even Mao in 3d. So NO Yuna medal at all!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    No. Adelina won fair and square. Her tech was superior. Period. That's still sport. One of the most subjective, but SPORT. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. I don't think Yuna was superior. I f I had to choose, I'd put
    1) Caro
    2) Adelina
    3) Yuna
    What do you think?? Or even Mao in 3d. So NO Yuna medal at all!
    Thanks for extended answer!
    However, the result is made by both technical and component score and the later is where values befall. I'll explain to you how it was explained to me: skaters have to interpret the music. Thay have to do every move with music accenting or illustrating it. They are not allowerd to make preparation pauses before elements like Sotnikova did; which besides suggests that her technique wasn't superior. If supperior, the jumps should look like a musical accent - like Yuna's.

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