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Thread: How will Sotnikova be viewed should she stumble going forward?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    I doubt she will, and hope she doesn't. Training a quad to competitive level is likely to do a good amount of damage to her body. Not to mention a lot of times when these girls are saying they are doing quads, they are almost always under-rotated (often severely). I suspect Adelina's is as well, unless someone has video evidence that says otherwise. And even if she did manage to train it to competitive levels without substantial injury, it's going to hard to include it in a program. Not only because it will be difficult to land a quad with all the anxiety that comes with competition, but a quad is very draining. It would be enormously difficult for a women to execute a fully-rotated 4T and then deliver a remaining program with good jumps and footwork for +GOE. If a women wants to include a 4T they would likely have to water down the rest of their jumping content, and by then it's probably a wash, or maybe even a loss, in terms of point value. Also, if she fell on her opening 4T, I'm pretty sure the rest of her performance would completely fall apart.
    As a figure skating fan I want to see it Her 3T is really high, you can see she is finishing rotation in the air like throw jumps in pair skating. If she can't, I don't think we will see quads near future. Of course there is a possibility we will never see in competition because jump is not consistent enough. -even If she trains for them-

    I thought Gold is working on 3As too.

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    There won't be a RUS judge on the Ladies panel in Saitama, only UKR and EST. The audience will be equally welcoming to all the skaters. Of course, we don't know who will be on the tech panel, but presumably it won't be a repeat of the Sochi panel, and Adelina will probably be subject to the edge calls she didn't get in Sochi.

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    Questionable judging aside, I think she has got talent in her to rise.

    If she can overcome all the controversies in this Olympic, she will be remembered as something more than Sochi gold medalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    As a figure skating fan I want to see it Her 3T is really high, you can see she is finishing rotation in the air like throw jumps in pair skating. If she can't, I don't think we will see quads near future. Of course there is a possibility we will never see in competition because jump is not consistent enough. -even If she trains for them-

    I thought Gold is working on 3As too.
    No, I agree it would be fun to see. Maybe she could throw it in once randomly, but as a competitive staple for her? I highly doubt it. Her 3T is large, but it's not so obviously large that she can have another complete revolution in there. She definitely has enough room to avoid a downgrade, but I'm not sure if she has enough room to land it without an under-rotation hit. She might be able to eventually get it fully-rotated, but landing it requires a lot of strength, and I'm not sure a women can handle that. Look at Midori Ito's old 3As, some of them were big enough to fit a 4A in, but I doubt she could have ever controlled the landing on a 4A. Plus, as I said, the really difficult trick would be to land a 4T and then continue with a high-quality program - the 4T just wipes out too much of a women's strength.

    And, Gold, as in Gracie Gold? She will never had a 3A in her arsenal - not gonna happen.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    If she stumbles going forward they'll say what they said before - she has potential but is inconsistent. It won't take away from the fact that in Sochi she put two fabulous programs together.
    It will take away because Sochi will be seen as a fluke and it will give more weight to the evidence that she shouldn't have won.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I'm amused at how commentators and media are so shocked by Adelina's win because she is not a complete skater and not elegant. Um, have they forgotten Slutskaya? Another Russian skater who didn't have good posture/lines and tacky choreography, but was a gold medal favorite at two Olympics, and would have possibly won if she didn't make mistakes. Or the reign of Plushenko? And it's not just Russian skaters. Elvis and even the revered Midori Ito, yes greatest jumper ever but not the most elegant or artistic. It just takes a little look back into figure skating history to see this is not an unusual occurrence.
    Totally agree! This is what I mean by russian favoritism, I don't understand it! I didn't think Slutskaya was the worst, that was maria butyrskaya, she was HORRIBLE!!! Agree about Elvis and Midori too but they did not win gold, and neither deserved to. Plushenko is so tacky and he is not the only "old" man doing quads, look at Brian Joubert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by caelum View Post
    No, I agree it would be fun to see. Maybe she could throw it in once randomly, but as a competitive staple for her? I highly doubt it. Her 3T is large, but it's not so obviously large that she can have another complete revolution in there. She definitely has enough room to avoid a downgrade, but I'm not sure if she has enough room to land it without an under-rotation hit. She might be able to eventually get it fully-rotated, but landing it requires a lot of strength, and I'm not sure a women can handle that. Look at Midori Ito's old 3As, some of them were big enough to fit a 4A in, but I doubt she could have ever controlled the landing on a 4A. Plus, as I said, the really difficult trick would be to land a 4T and then continue with a high-quality program - the 4T just wipes out too much of a women's strength.

    And, Gold, as in Gracie Gold? She will never had a 3A in her arsenal - not gonna happen.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-0sYGrI6Lk

    I think this is Gracie Gold's attempt.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-0sYGrI6Lk

    I think this is Gracie Gold's attempt.
    I've seen that video so many times, I knew what I was going to see and yet I couldn't resist it. I'm waiting for a harness free attempt. Anyone?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    LoL. What this event made me realize is that why are there even scores for transitions and choreography? Those scores are just placeholders; no one seems to know how to score them correctly. They should just do away with those two. PCS should just be one score. So much of it now is technical and that should be taken care of in GOEs (already a very subjective component). They don't need to reward things like execution twice.
    I think choreography and music are very much important in figure skating. It's the link between sport and art, which makes it a unique sport.
    I'm not saying they should put marks for the music but to choreography defenitely yes.
    That will cover music as well, althoug not always I think. I liked the choreo. in Adelina's SP but I hated that musical version of Carmen, horrible choice. In fact, I think they should ban Carmen in figure skating all together.
    I'm sick and tired with that! It's good that I'm not a judge because I would give very low marks on PCS just for that choice of music!
    (Sorry Bizet it's not your fault, I love your opera.)

    However, I do agree with you on performance/execution. I just don't understand why do thay need to put marks on performance/execution and than again for interpretation? It's confusing and leave a lot of space for interpretation for an already subjective matter.
    I would say choose between the two, either the former or the later. Personally I would prefer interpreation and that's it. It's more easy to understand. I also think that transitions should go together with choreography, as you suggested. It's part of the choreography and should be valuated as such.

    As Sonia Bianchetti Garbato wrote in her article in October 2011 "Sport or Art? It is time to decide":

    "The ISU must make up its mind: if figure skating is art, it is necessary for the judges to be given the means to judge it as such, as a whole, and not sliced into many different meaningless marks. As we have always contended, the performances of a singer, a ballet dancer, a concert player, or a skater cannot be measured with the precision of a mathematical system, but only judged. And judging can only be, and will always be, subjective."

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginal View Post
    I don't think adelina is as bad as sarah hughes... and alexei who?
    Alexei Urmanov of the "Unified" Team (former Soviet Union), 1994 Men's OGM. Never a favorite of mine, but I tend to agree that he gave the best performance that evening; the others all had stumbles. One thing about him was that he created long balletic lines -- which I always love -- but there was still something there that just never appealed to me. Just one fan's opinion.

    Sarah? C'mon now, she wasn't bad. Certainly not brilliant, but not all that bad, either. Slutskaya & Kwan were far better, of course, but that night they both left the door open (unfortunately!!!!!) and Hughes just skated through it, that's all.

    BTW re: 1994 Olympics, do check out Kurt Browning's "Casablanca" program on YouTube if you get a chance. I think he ended up in 4th (if not, someone please correct) but even with the mistakes it's a terrific program! Super choreography and great footwork. OGM or not, he was a fabulous skater.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by usethis2 View Post
    If she stumbles going forward, she will retire. I thought that much was obvious.

    If she continues and improves, she may have a chance for redemption.. in Pyongchang.
    Agree. There are many brilliant junior waiting for debut to senior stage in Russia. IMO, Compare to them she is not so significant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Alexei Urmanov of the "Unified" Team (former Soviet Union), 1994 Men's OGM. Never a favorite of mine, but I tend to agree that he gave the best performance that evening; the others all had stumbles. One thing about him was that he created long balletic lines -- which I always love -- but there was still something there that just never appealed to me. Just one fan's opinion.


    .

    I predict that Adelina might have a career like Alexei. Winning Olympics rarely means skater will dominate At Worlds. Probably she was a few Worlds medal and a European title. Hopefully no injuries.

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    Too soon to tell. With Urmanov it was his one real shining moment and he was forgotten by Nagano. And then look at Sarah Hughes, she skipped worlds in 2002 and did a whirlwind media blitz. A year later she quietly finished 6th at worlds and then went to college.

    Right now let's see how she does at worlds and the next season or two to truly evaluate her. This will either be the watershed moment where Adelina becomes a dominant skater, or her one brief shining moment and she will always try to live up to it (with or without success).

    A non-skating analogy is the Academy Award: winners occasionally who have one great role, nail it, win the Oscar and then have mediocre careers afterward (e.g. Luise Rainer, Mira Sorvino, Sandy Dennis).

    Let's all check in on February 9, 2018?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyanka View Post
    Too soon to tell. With Urmanov it was his one real shining moment and he was forgotten by Nagano. And then look at Sarah Hughes, she skipped worlds in 2002 and did a whirlwind media blitz. A year later she quietly finished 6th at worlds and then went to college.

    Right now let's see how she does at worlds and the next season or two to truly evaluate her. This will either be the watershed moment where Adelina becomes a dominant skater, or her one brief shining moment and she will always try to live up to it (with or without success).

    A non-skating analogy is the Academy Award: winners occasionally who have one great role, nail it, win the Oscar and then have mediocre careers afterward (e.g. Luise Rainer, Mira Sorvino, Sandy Dennis).

    Let's all check in on February 9, 2018?
    Well Rainer has 2 back to back Oscars...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TryMeLater View Post
    Well Rainer has 2 back to back Oscars...
    Not to go too far off topic but yes (I always forget the second one after The Great Ziegfield). Good catch!

    In any event, my point is that some have stumbled after taking the ultimate prize. Sandy Dennis was OK for a while but had faded by the mid-70s and Mira Sorvino wasn't so hot after Romy & Michele's High School Reunion. Flash in the pan?

    Either Sotnikova will be the next star, or she'll have her moment but that is all.

    Looking forward to seeing her at worlds. And I mean that, without malice or ill will!

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