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Thread: Wrong Edge Problem and Kinds of Jumps

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  1. #1
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    Wrong Edge Problem and Kinds of Jumps

    Interesting point made in one of the posts:

    These are the kinds of jumps we have in the system so far:
    Axel
    Loop, Salchow
    Toe-Loop, Lutz, Flip

    Lutz and Flip are separate jumps for a reason since the take-off mechanism is supposed to be different because of the angle of your foot. Male skaters usually seem to do fine with lutz jumps - you can see a clear outside edge take-off, but flutzing (using inside-edge for a lutz jump) is so frequent among ladies.

    So basically, they are doing a flip jump. But consider this: if a skater cannot do a lutz jump, they can still list it as a planned element along with flip jumps, and whether or not she uses outside edge, regardless of an edge call is made or not, will still get credit, although may get deducted some points.

    This is basically a loophole in the Zayak rule because a skater can get by by jumping at most four of the same jump and still can get credits.

    IMO wrong-edge lutz should be considered a flip, thus upon failure it should be considered as a flip jump, and if the skater has already jumped two flips, it should not be recognized.

    What do other people think?

  2. #2
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    But there is the issue of counter rotation. If there is couter rotation but then the skater switches to the inside edge at the very last moment before take-off, it's not a correct Lutz, but it's not a Flip either.

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    I've mentioned this before as I think it's a disadvantage to skaters like Yuna who don't do a loop but do correct lutz and flip. A lot of skaters can't do a lutz but get free 7th triple.

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    A 3flutz is still a triple jump that is harder than a 3Lo. There are many skaters who cannot even do a 3Lz or 3F at all or they cannot do it consistently (Carolina Kostner gave up the 3Lz altogether in 2011 due to injury). That's different from having a consistently wrong 3Lz off the wrong edge (or a 3F off the wrong edge).

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    The skater should be judged by what jump she actually does, no matter what the intention. A flutzed lutz would be judged to be a flip, etc.

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    Why do so many women have this problem and very few men? Is it like a muscle/strength issue?

    Also it seems like quite a few guys have a lot of trouble with the axel jump (Chan, Lambiel) despite being very solid on the quad.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    The skater should be judged by what jump she actually does, no matter what the intention. A flutzed lutz would be judged to be a flip, etc.
    Then just get rid of the rules altogether and let them do whatever jumps they want

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    The skater should be judged by what jump she actually does, no matter what the intention. A flutzed lutz would be judged to be a flip, etc.
    Seconded.

    Someone mentioned Carolina gave up on lutz because she couldn't execute it well? Example of honest skaters being punished.

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