Scoring explanation in ladies event for beginners | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Scoring explanation in ladies event for beginners

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
:points: gkelly :bow:

Thanks for the detailed and reason explanation!

I basically told my mom, who read "all the controversy" but didn't see the event, that what was so amazing to me is take 2010 out of the equation (specifically YuNa's stellar skates, and one of the best final flights for ladies ever), and any one of the top 3 may have one gold at another Olympics (and possibly top 4...then imagine a different SP for Mao and that number grows).

But, that aside, it is interesting to really analyze the goe's and the levels. The utter difficulty in assessing these in anything like real time as gkelly explains, raises a lot of questions about the cumbersomeness of this scoring system. I suppose it also points to the importance of a 3 person team for callers. The issue of PCS as MM explains it raises similar issues (too much to account for, just go with SS as the first component).

Suggestions that efforts to quantify the PCSs even more does not seem to me the way to go, IMO. Also, only weighting what we lump as "artistic" about 30% seems, to me, a bare minimum and I wouldn't want that to diminish any more (and fear that quantifying PCS more would not only add more layers of opacity, but would eventually lead to diminishing this more). How to keep that "artistic" head nod and reward technical difficulty is clearly very challenging. Moreover, many of us, I think, at times conflate technique with technical difficulty (or vice versa) - excellent technique may not always equal difficult, and technical difficulty does not always involve the best technique.

Surely, much of the outrage and feelings of unfair judging would be diminished if the judges were not anonymous and if the powers that be in figure skating found more ways, like some of the explanations in this thread, to communicate about this sport to general audiences. The latter seems to be something that the ISU refuses to do or entertain, and that is a huge problem. But listening to former skaters now commentators also suggests some very fundamental core disagreements about what "a winning performance" looks like. I just don't know the contours of this disagreement is - is it simply "old school" versus "younger generation" or does it reflect deeper knowledge that includes much of what is discussed here about levels, about the meaning of the criteria for distinct pcs and so forth (or both, or something else).

All that said, there is clearly - again as others have mentioned - nothing like being in the front row while the event is happening. The speed, the energy, and the confidence/command of the skater is really something quite different live than on tv. So too might be noticing changing skating direction (I find it really hard to figure that out watching on tv as the camera angles change, I loose sense of where I am in the arena or the vantage point of the camera).
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Great points, emma.

All that said, there is clearly - again as others have mentioned - nothing like being in the front row while the event is happening. The speed, the energy, and the confidence/command of the skater is really something quite different live than on tv. So too might be noticing changing skating direction (I find it really hard to figure that out watching on tv as the camera angles change, I loose sense of where I am in the arena or the vantage point of the camera).

One thing you can pay attention to on TV is how often the skater is traveling on clockwise vs. counterclockwise curves and change between them, and also how often they change between backward and forward skating.

It is hard to keep track of when you watch a program for the first time while also paying attention to what jumps they're landing, how they're relating to the music, etc.

But if you're curious you can go back and watch just for that, which is easier to see on video than speed and doesn't require as much technical knowledge as identifying turns.

That said, if you notice that a skater often changes between forward/backward and clockwise/counterclockwise at exactly the same time, instead of separately, that's probably more difficult.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
FYI - Complete IJS Basics can be found at iceskatingintnl.com
Clik on Sochi Olympics 2014 and drop down to left side and clik on IJS Basics
Copyright 2014 by George S. Rossano (Dr. Rossano is a physicist and mathematician, a national figure skating judge and data operator.)ELEMENT REVIEW
While programs are being performed, the Technical Specialist identifies each element, their level and calls any falls. If the Assistant Specialist or the Controller does not agree with the call, they can ask for a review following the program by saying "review" when the specialist makes the call. If there are no calls to review at the end of a performance, the Controller "authorizes" the elements, and once the judges have finished entering their marks the officials are ready to continue with the next skater. If there are calls to reviews, the Controller works through each of these with the Technical Panel. The Controller directs the review process.
When reviewing an element, if the Assistant Specialist agrees with the Specialist the call stands. If the Assistant Specialist does not agree with the Specialist, the Controller breaks the tie. This process is followed for all reviews of element identifications, level calls, no value elements and fall deductions.
After all the reviews are resolved, the Controller will authorize the elements. Once authorized, and the competition has moved on to the next skater the "field of play" is closed for the previous skater, and the calls cannot be changed even if later recognized to be incorrect, other than if the data operator has incorrectly entered information into the scoring computer system. The voices of the Technical Panel are recorded to resolve any questions concerning what the Data Operator was asked to enter by the Controller.
At major competitions a video replay system is used to view the elements (or falls) under review. The video can be played in slow motion if needed, however, for edge calls the replay is always conducted at normal speed.
Reviews often involve lengthy (sometimes animated) discussion among the Specialist, Assistant Specialist and the Controller as the Controller asks the Specialist and the Assistant Specialist what they think the correct call should be and why. The Data Operator and Video Operator do not participate in the discussion. he Data Operator can, however, participate in discussions of the rules that would require giving an element no credit.

EDGE CALLS
Jumps are classified (named) by their takeoff edge and whether they takeoff with or without a tap from the other leg. The different jumps are named as follows, and takeoff from the edges listed (for a right handed skater).
• Toe Loop -- right back outside tap jump
• Salchow -- left back inside edge jump
• Loop -- right back outside edge jump
• Flip -- left back inside tap jump
• Lutz -- left back outside tap jump
• Axel -- left forward outside, edge jump
A common error in the Lutz jump is to change from the back outside edge to a back inside edge shortly before the takeoff. Less common, but also seen is a change of edge shortly before the takeoff from a flip jump. These errors are penalized by a reduction in the GoE by the judges, but it is the Technical Panel that calls whether the edge change has taken place. A Lutz with a change of edge is often referred to by the jargon "flutz" and a flip with a change if edge as a "lip." These terms are not official rulebook terms, but are nonetheless commonly use by fans and the skating community.
If the jump has a long, clear, obvious, change of edge the jump receives an "edge call" and is noted by an "e" on the marks detail published following the event.
Jumps with an edge call or edge alert do not receive a lower base value. They are only penalized by the reduced GoE. Judges will typically reduce the GoE by 1 or 2 for this error, depending on it's severity.
 

Anna K.

Medalist
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
Page 57 of COP says no sotnikova's can win.

:laugh:
Good to see someone who can still smile about it.
If seriously, for many of us this is the first time we learn what figure skating really consists of. This I think is the best side of what has happened.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
That said, if you notice that a skater often changes between forward/backward and clockwise/counterclockwise at exactly the same time, instead of separately, that's probably more difficult.

Much appreciated advice - and I will do this! thanks.
 
Top