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Thread: Documentary "Nancy/Tonya"

  1. #31
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    So while Tonya was being dragged through the mud, did they mention when Nancy was having an affair with her married manager?
    Thought not....

  2. #32
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    After watching it, I can say that I wouldn't mind having a beer and do karaoke with Tonya. She's more approachable and seems to be more fun to be around. Nancy is a stick in the mud, no one wants to be near her. Her energy sucks.

  3. #33
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    Dragged through the mud? They were talking about KILLING Nancy. I for one do not see much of a comparison between THAT and Nancy, who had a few open mic moments. Tonya and Jeff made a PORN for God's sakes! There is no comparison whatsoever between these two human beings.
    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimeLurker View Post
    So while Tonya was being dragged through the mud, did they mention when Nancy was having an affair with her married manager?
    Thought not....

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    After watching it, I can say that I wouldn't mind having a beer and do karaoke with Tonya. She's more approachable and seems to be more fun to be around. Nancy is a stick in the mud, no one wants to be near her. Her energy sucks.
    Nancy certainly rarely comes across as warm. She seemed a lot more comfortable in that final piece with Costas, though. However, she has evidently inspired loyalty from people who worked with her, like the Scotvolds and Paul Wylie, who speak so highly of her, so that says a lot to me. I don't hear anyone speaking warmly of Tonya, even her former coaches who were complimentary of her talents but not so much about her behavior in general.

    I personally wouldn't want to have a beer with Tonya because I wouldn't trust anything she would have to say, not even "good morning" on a beautiful day.

  5. #35
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    New poster here! I've been reading for a while, but finally got the courage to chime in.
    I remember this incident so clearly, and now, having watched the documentary as well as "Price of Gold," I have to say that I'm firmly on 'team Nancy.'
    Tonya was a great skater and her jumps were amazing, but to me it's clear from watching the interviews that she's a manipulator and seemingly incapable of feeling remorse for her actions and the effect they had on Nancy. She seemed to project a lot of her insecurities onto Nancy ("She looked at me like I was trash," etc), and I think it says a lot that even some of her childhood friends believe she knew about the plan beforehand at the very least.
    Nancy, I feel, was always miscast by the media. She was beautiful and with those high cheekbones she looked like an upper class beauty instead of a working class one, which she was. She also wasn't an ice princess herself, she just learned to portray that image when she was on the ice. And, as she's said many times, she was shy. I think those things, combined with her athleticism and clear desire to be the best at her sport made her come across as cold and aloof to some. She wasn't a bubbly Mary Lou. And I think the way she handled the scrutiny and media attention during those weeks and came out with two incredible performances - that takes some serious character. I mean, can you imagine being attacked by people linked to your fiercest competitor 6 weeks before the biggest competition of your life, rehabbing the injury within weeks, having to skate with and see the person most probably involved, and cameras are following you everywhere? It's mind blowing, what she accomplished. And I thought she came across incredibly well in her interview with Bob Costas. For someone who is naturally guarded and shy, it can take years to learn how to come across so warmly in a setting as unnatural as an interview.
    Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm longwinded, apologies!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by raineydaze View Post
    New poster here! I've been reading for a while, but finally got the courage to chime in.
    I remember this incident so clearly, and now, having watched the documentary as well as "Price of Gold," I have to say that I'm firmly on 'team Nancy.'
    Tonya was a great skater and her jumps were amazing, but to me it's clear from watching the interviews that she's a manipulator and seemingly incapable of feeling remorse for her actions and the effect they had on Nancy. She seemed to project a lot of her insecurities onto Nancy ("She looked at me like I was trash," etc), and I think it says a lot that even some of her childhood friends believe she knew about the plan beforehand at the very least.
    Nancy, I feel, was always miscast by the media. She was beautiful and with those high cheekbones she looked like an upper class beauty instead of a working class one, which she was. She also wasn't an ice princess herself, she just learned to portray that image when she was on the ice. And, as she's said many times, she was shy. I think those things, combined with her athleticism and clear desire to be the best at her sport made her come across as cold and aloof to some. She wasn't a bubbly Mary Lou. And I think the way she handled the scrutiny and media attention during those weeks and came out with two incredible performances - that takes some serious character. I mean, can you imagine being attacked by people linked to your fiercest competitor 6 weeks before the biggest competition of your life, rehabbing the injury within weeks, having to skate with and see the person most probably involved, and cameras are following you everywhere? It's mind blowing, what she accomplished. And I thought she came across incredibly well in her interview with Bob Costas. For someone who is naturally guarded and shy, it can take years to learn how to come across so warmly in a setting as unnatural as an interview.
    Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm longwinded, apologies!
    Thanks for your post raineydaze and welcome to GS!

  7. #37
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    I was laughing when Tonya was singing the theme song to Ice Castles at a karaoke bar

  8. #38
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    Welcome to GS, Raineydaze!

    A lot of people who don't know Nancy seem to dislike her intensely because of the way she comes across. Having known a few similarly self-contained characters, I don't find her as off-putting myself. And then I always liked her skating, which had a smoothness and power to it that wasn't really as pretty princess as all that. We tend to forget that for a skater, she was rather tall and big, being 5'4" in a world of sprites (except for Tonya). Next to tiny Kristi, Nancy looked statuesque.

    In fact, the pretty princess at those Olympics was actually Oksana. She skated to Broadway standards and actually wore pink fluff. It suited her, and there's nothing wrong with that, though I preferred her short program to Swan Lake. (That program is a humdinger! So exciting.)

    The one thing that did distress me about Nancy was that she could easily veer into headcase territory, as she did at 1993 Worlds. (And she actually did a bit in the long program in the 1992 Albertville Olympics after doing an exceedingly solid short program.) The fact that she didn't crumble or even falter at the 1994 Olympics was thus even more laudable. The pressure on her must have been nonstop and extremely intense to a degree we can't possibly imagine. Just the sound of all those cameras going off would have sent me into a swivet!

    But you're never going to please everyone. Some people will find her cold, while some will fault her for her two or three snarky remarks about Oksana and Disney. Others (as one poster did here) will find that her conduct with Salomon before his first marriage ended makes her fair game for criticism for the rest of recorded time. That's life. For myself, I find her interesting to listen to in terms of the perspective she's clearly developed over the past two decades. I thought I'd find this program exploitive, and the fact that it isn't is for me largely due to Nancy's input. She could have made many digs at Tonya, and she refrained from doing so, even expressing admiration for her skating. She emerged very well from this, I thought.

  9. #39
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    I understand where Tonya is coming from. Don't get me wrong, I think she's totally guilty. When you are questioned and prodded and made fun of your whole life, it's hard not to be defensive. That said, I'm not competing with the girl, I think she's more fun to be around.

    Nancy is so unlikable, it's ridiculous that she's on TV. I don't find her skating particularly interesting. She's like an uglier step sister of the Finn girls. Similar, but uglier look. Similar, but worse, stroking and edge. Similar in aloofness, but her demeanor veers into unlikable territory, whereas Laura and Kiira are in the neutral zone.

    I don't think it's possible for Tonya to find redemption in the public eyes anymore. It's ridiculous that someone like Nancy has 2 Olympics medals. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. She's just not very good.

  10. #40
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    And yet Tonya was there too and couldn't manage a medal either time.

    I just find nothing likeable about Tonya. She's delusional, mean-spirited, bitter, and a poor sport. She was constantly playing the victim to try to get an edge and in 20 years, she's clearly not gained one ounce of perspective. I'll always remember someone pointing out that things like her lace mishap just don't happen with world class athletes. Yet with Tonya it happened 4 times. All with the benefit of getting her better skate times. Then she conveniently gets to skip a regional qualifying event because of a "death threat". It'll never be hard for me to believe she'd go the next step towards sabotaging her competitors.

    And on the skating front, I find most of her jumps to be almost painful looking. It's like she could rarely find her landing edge so her jumps had this flat-footed, jarring impact.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiceSkate View Post
    I was laughing when Tonya was singing the theme song to Ice Castles at a karaoke bar
    Well, shoot. Never knew that song was from "Ice Castles." But take it from a singer: her pitch was way off (flat).

    Sorry for the snark but my ears just about turned inside out when I heard her singing. Yikes! OTOH, there's so much in TH's background that makes me feel truly sorry for her, even though it doesn't excuse whatever part she may have played in the attack.

  12. #42
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    I love how people say they love Ashley for being real but Nancy got killed for speaking her mind with a few comments. Nancy wasn't a ice princess either she was working class too but played the game and was molded into what figure skating wanted.

  13. #43
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    The entire program can be found here:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmO...?feature=watch

    It's broken into seven parts.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatedreamer View Post
    Well, shoot. Never knew that song was from "Ice Castles." But take it from a singer: her pitch was way off (flat).

    Sorry for the snark but my ears just about turned inside out when I heard her singing. Yikes! OTOH, there's so much in TH's background that makes me feel truly sorry for her, even though it doesn't excuse whatever part she may have played in the attack.
    I thought the amount of time the spent on her painfully bad karaoke performance was kind of mean. It's not like it added to the story. It just kind of had the mean spirited feel of a bad American Idol audition. Plus, it was really unpleasant to listen to.

    Agree about her background. I think she got dealt a bad hand, but she made it worse with the sort of attitude of victimization, bitterness and refusal to accept her own role in it. The only time (that they showed anyway) she admitted anything that wasn't somebody else's fault was when she said she was too lazy and cocky to practice like she should have.

    I think it's entirely possible that some people in the FS community did treat her like white trash and even before the scandal I remember fans making fun of her hair, makeup and costumes, but I think her attitude that the world was against her made her see insult where none was given. As for Nancy, she may or may not have given her the cold shoulder, but if she did I think it may have had more to do with them having very different personalities, as well as being rivals, than Nancy seeing her as trash.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angryyew View Post
    I thought the amount of time the spent on her painfully bad karaoke performance was kind of mean. It's not like it added to the story. It just kind of had the mean spirited feel of a bad American Idol audition. Plus, it was really unpleasant to listen to.

    Agree about her background. I think she got dealt a bad hand, but she made it worse with the sort of attitude of victimization, bitterness and refusal to accept her own role in it. The only time (that they showed anyway) she admitted anything that wasn't somebody else's fault was when she said she was too lazy and cocky to practice like she should have.

    I think it's entirely possible that some people in the FS community did treat her like white trash and even before the scandal I remember fans making fun of her hair, makeup and costumes, but I think her attitude that the world was against her made her see insult where none was given. As for Nancy, she may or may not have given her the cold shoulder, but if she did I think it may have had more to do with them having very different personalities, as well as being rivals, than Nancy seeing her as trash.
    Very well said! And yes, the karaoke sequence was mean and didn't add much to the story. It certainly brought out my inner Snarkasaurus....

    Below is a link to an article about Tonya and Nancy that I ran across last month in news stories about the anniversary of the attack. It's very, VERY long but worth reading. The author has clearly given a lot of thought to the issues surrounding the incident, including the image female skaters are expected to maintain.

    I remember watching Tonya and thinking she needed some help w/ hair, etc. but especially that she was an incredible athlete. Seeing her land that 3A in the 1991 nationals was marvelous -- would have loved to have seen it live! The saddest thing is that she was so amazingly gifted and never fulfilled her potential because she was her own worst enemy. What a loss for figure skating, but most of all for Tonya.

    http://www.believermag.com/issues/20...ticle_marshall

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