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Thread: Going forward for Michelle & Sasha - the CoP and 3/3s

  1. #16
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    COP allowed only 2 combinations this last year in the LP.

    There were complaints from the federations, particularly after Plushenko's loss in the Grand Prix final when he threw in a third combination and it diddn't count. Three combinations are supposed to be OK next year.

    Under COP, when a skater underrotates a jump, the caller may decide it is an overrotated jump of one revolution less.
    So an underrotated 4t may be deemed a 3t by the caller. The same could be true of an underrotated 3t; it could be called a 2t.

    The Zayak rule only allows 2 iterations of the same jump, one of which must be in combination.

    So the following sort of thing would happen:

    Suppose Skater A schedules a 4t by itself, a 3t by itself, and then 4t3t, This is all legal.

    However, he underrotates his first 4t, which is called a 3t.
    His 3t by itself is now a repeat of a single jump, so it doesn't count under the Zayak rule.

    Depending on how the program is written, even if he performs his 4t/3t correctly, it cmight be called a Zayak violation since he already has 2 3t's., because he now has 3 3t's. And he might have no combination either.

    There are a lot of screwy possibilities. The ISU is supposed to be fixing this.

  2. #17
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    My thought...

    Until COP is cemented in stone & ink, all this speculation is a waste of time - what everybody did this past season means nada when the new system is implemented next season - everybody starts over with a clean plate. And then that's when everything gets interesting (aka what new changes did the ISU vote on over the summer as regards COP???; e.g. more points for 3/3s combos., increased value for quads, points taken off for falls, GOE point taken off for underrotation, etc.). We shall see...

    Peace & In a Contemplative Mood, Nadine

    MODIFIED TO SWITCH: from speculative mood to "contemplative" mood.
    Last edited by Nadine; 03-30-2004 at 08:16 PM.

  3. #18
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Look, the Ladies competition is no longer about Presentation or artistry if you want to call it that. Sasha, Michelle and Shizuka all have artistry. So has Yukina, Bebe, Suzana Poykio, etc.,. It's about the tricks. Who among these artists have the tricks? The message is clear to Sasha and Michelle - a gold requires 2 3x3s. That's the way it is. I see the possiblility of an Asian podium for the Ladies.

    The Japanes Men and the Chinese Men have improved tremendously, the Chinese have a decent Dance (would you believe it) team. The Pairs are obvious.

    Joe

  4. #19
    On the Ice
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    As this is thread has CoP, I wonder if anyone know if the "instant replay" have ever been used this 1st year. Or whether the judges & techies didn't call for a replay because of the fear of being called not too competent a judge.

    After seeing a couple of important replays in the women's nationals for basket ball, the same thought cropped regarding whether a replay have evern been used in figure skating.

    In one game, it was a matter whether a foul was done after/before the buzzer for the end of the game. In another case, it was whether a basketball was thrown before the the half. The foul and subsequent basket determined the winner.

    It also appears that the buzzer/horn is the primary for the end or the half/game, the referee's call is 2nd and the use of the TIME CLOCK was 3rd.

    Too bad ABC didn't also show when the timer started for MK's short program as ithey did for the end of the program.

  5. #20
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    CoP will not give credit for a 3/3 if the second jump is not completely rotated. There were several underrotated 3/3s at Worlds (Shizuka's in the SP and Ando's 3T3T in the FS). I'll be interested to see how the judges treat these skaters next year.

  6. #21
    bugs are smarter than we are bronxgirl's Avatar
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    I've never understood why instant replay isn't used routinely. If the NFL can now have 3 instant replays per request of each side, why can't figure skating judges use them for a sport in which the athletes are really moving fast...

  7. #22
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    I think it was sensible of Michelle to spare her body, as she was able to win with a lesser jump content. And also because judges rewarded her for the presentation so much. Things will change though in future. Now there are many other ladies that have great presentation also (one can e.g. count Arakawa having one in next season also) and those ladies already now do have a more difficult jump content than Kwan and Sasha.

    I would expect both Sasha and Michelle needing two triple/triple combinations next season if their goal is to try to get on Worlds 2005 podium and on 2006 Olympics podium.

    Marjaana

  8. #23
    Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
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    Joe, while I agree that 3/3's will be a must from now on ... I'm not sure MK or Sasha would have to do two of them ... at least not next year.
    I think COP could possibly take a little away from Ando's and Arakawa's marks for the under rotations. I think brilliantly choreographed programs with clean jumps, and at least one 3/3, might just do it.

  9. #24
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    cop

    I hope your wrong Joe or we will have a jump fest . We had that a few yrs. ago . I would like to see deductions for underroated 3/3s to equal the playing field. It seems the rules are not applied to all skaters. Will COP make a difference who knows.

  10. #25
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    NYMKFAN and Cianni - First of all the Europeans love big tricks. they preferred their Lindeman's tricks to Lambiel's artistry.

    As to underrotat ed jumps, one only has to look at the King of Tricks, Plushenko. In the 4x4x3, the last loop is skated a full half a turn before he he takes off in the air. The combo is sensational and the underrotated jump is totally forgiven. It's only if another skater does the same thing and does not cheat the take off.

    Ando and Arakawa are doing sensational jump combos.

    OK for one measly 3toe x 3toe, and see how many points it racks up to a 3zx3r?

    Presentation is not a privilege to MK and SC. It is definetley shared with Arakawa and Ota, and Fumie is not so bad at that either. And Ando may be ready by 2006.

    Unless the Japanese Ladies make booboos, they will win easily. The Presentations are now spread out; let's get the tricks spread out.

    If the combos are senational, the underrotates are irrelevant.

    Joe

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