Figure Skating's Love Affairs with Little Girls

karlowens2 said:

What the judges of late have been ignoring is the quality of the moves. (I´m not talking artistry.) We saw with Gracie Gold where she landed the jump but there was a wobble in it. Or Yulia. Her foot is in the right direction but her body is askew. Adenia did the tricks but the line and flow out weren´t there . The mature, top skaters develop control. They land with everything in position, no settling. They have devloped all the little muscles that plant you firnly in position on landing.

It makes a difference. I don´t know why in figure skating this is not understood. In diving, for example, many high-school athletes can do triple layouts, etc. But only the Greg Louganis-es rotate with everything perfecdtly aligned and enter the water soundlessly. A 15 year old just isn´t develooped enough to understand much less perfect all these details.

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It is well understood. It was just ignored in Sochi. (why? your guess is as good as mine ) My personal gripes against these younger skaters were that they do not finish their moves! They go onto the next element in a hurry without letting me enjoy whatever it is that they supposedly have just done. These uncleanness occurring in succession throughout a whole program, the whole thing looked like a mess.

They don't finish their moves, they don't have the same level of skating skills, their jumps are hops, they don't have emotional or choreographic maturity to their programs....

There's a whole list of reasons why the little girls cannot match the champions who have spent years refining their craft.

There's a place for teaching them and having them compete against each other, giving them a shot against the veterans, etc. But not at the expense of pushing the great ones out the door without so much as a thanks.

usethis2 said:

It is well understood. It was just ignored in Sochi. (why? your guess is as good as mine ) My personal gripes against these younger skaters were that they do not finish their moves! They go onto the next element in a hurry without letting me enjoy whatever it is that they supposedly have just done. These uncleanness occurring in succession throughout a whole program, the whole thing looked like a mess.

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You have to understand at some point that you're not the dictator of figure skating. Everyone likes different things. These skaters are not training for your enjoyment alone. They have goals and go about in different ways to satisfy themselves and maximize their scores. You should try to respect that. My two favorite skaters are Yuna and Yulia and both offer different approaches and different styles. For that I'm thankful. What's the big deal. Do you really suggest Yulia and Polina are not good enough to skate with the big girls? That's like someone stating that Akiko is too old or someone is to fat. Where does it end? If you can't see the talent than I don't know what your looking at....hmm?

Yes, there are many people who are too fat to skate in front of paying audiences. That is just a fact.

Ven said:

Yes, there are many people who are too fat to skate in front of paying audiences. That is just a fact.

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Seriously? Yulia is a top 5 skater in the world. That's a fact!

Sam-Skwantch said:

Seriously? Yulia is a top 5 skater in the world. That's a fact!

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Yes I'm serious. Would you pay money to watch fat people skate?

And Julia is borderline top 5, probably just outside. She's in that second tier of skaters who could be borderline top 5 depending on how good they skate that day.

Her scores were ridiculously inflated. The +2s she received on her jumps are a joke, a lot of her components scores were a joke. And I say that as someone who thinks she's a very good skater, just not as ready as she was made out to be. The corridor indiscriminately eliminated the PCS gap between the Russian girls and the top skaters.

I don't think it's skating's -- or even the skate-watching public's -- love affairs with little girls, so much as little girls' love affair with skating.

Most skaters are girls because, statistically, that's the demographic who have the passion to devote hours per week practicing their gliding and and spinning and jumping so they can submit themselves to judgment on how well they perform.

Many boys are discouraged from trying figure skating or sticking with it because gliding and twirling and submitting oneself to judgment including about refined appearance are perceived as feminine and they feel pressure to conform to gender norms, or it just doesn't catch their interest in the first place.

The nature of the techniques reward those who start at younger ages over those who start later, even if they put in the same amount of time.

Those who start as teenagers or adults are unlikely to get close to an elite level. They're also less likely to have the discretionary time and money to devote to full-time training. Kids can more often at least sustain the dream of getting there for enough years to get halfway there.

Girls' jumping ability tends to peak in early to mid teens. Once a girl passes that age, she may improve significantly in other areas, but she's not likely to do more than maintain whatever jumping skills she has already developed by then.

So most older teen girls realize they're not going to reach elite levels and turn their attention elsewhere, preparing for other types of careers, even if they continue to train and compete as well.

Only those who are already at or close to the top can afford to make skating a full-time career as they reach early adulthood. There will always be fresher faces, younger bodies ready to take their place if they can't deliver in competition. So if a girl goes through a rough patch at 16-17-18, often she decides she has past her peak athletically and competitively and retires from competing, before she gets the chance to reach her full potential in areas other than jumping.

There are fewer male skaters to begin with. But they can often sustain longer careers because 1) there's less competition so they can afford to have an off day or an off year and still get opportunities, and 2) body changes with adulthood tend to help more than hurt jumping ability compared with females, so jumping skill can continue to improve through late teens, maybe early 20s.

Sam-Skwantch said:

I'm stating a fact. I'm at the rink now and of the ten girls here only two are over 14 yrs old.

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I'm not saying it's not a fact, but that doesn't mean it can't change.

I don't see anything wrong with girls skating from an early age. The only thing I find offensive and bizarre is pushing the mature, better skaters out the door. If they're over the hill, let them leave. But when they are still the best of the best, why would anyone with a sane mind wish for them to go away, in favor of some junior high girl with a lot to work on still?

leafygreens said:

I'm not saying it's not a fact, but that doesn't mean it can't change.

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And I would support anyone of any age competing at any level they qualify for unlike some here. That's my point. Thank you.

CezarMart said:

It IS figure skating and if you have wrong thoughts then I don't want to hear about it.
And who the hell is Emma Watson? Kidding, of course everyone knows. Sorry, I am not part of this culture of Biebers etc. I am in love with sport, any sport, any athletic sport, that requires strength, energy, superhuman technical skills, hard work and discipline.

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Then watch pairs and dance! The top teams are not little kiddies. They tend to retire closer to 30 than 20. And pairs has enough crazy athletic feats to satisfy an X-sport fan. Check out Volosozhar's triple twist! etc.

Ven said:

They don't finish their moves, they don't have the same level of skating skills, their jumps are hops, they don't have emotional or choreographic maturity to their programs....

There's a whole list of reasons why the little girls cannot match the champions who have spent years refining their craft.

There's a place for teaching them and having them compete against each other, giving them a shot against the veterans, etc. But not at the expense of pushing the great ones out the door without so much as a thanks.

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That's exactly my issue. Unlike the author of the linked article in the OP, I take no issue with young girls competing in the Olympics per se. My problem is that they sometimes (though not very often) are given undue benefit of doubts for reasons other than skating.. If young girls can pull out the same skills as more experienced ones, by all means - the system should award their skills. But, if the rule is such that more experience skaters would be penalized for something (such as unclean moves or incorrect techniques), then younger ones should not get a free pass on those, either.

Exactly.

Ven said:

I don't see anything wrong with girls skating from an early age. The only thing I find offensive and bizarre is pushing the mature, better skaters out the door. If they're over the hill, let them leave. But when they are still the best of the best, why would anyone with a sane mind wish for them to go away, in favor of some junior high girl with a lot to work on still?

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If they are still the best then they won't be pushed aside. Right. I've never heard anyone say something like Yulia,Gracie, and Adelina are so good we need to get Caro the blank out of here. Where do you hear this? The point is if they are good enough....which they are....they should be allowed to compete. Anything else would be bias and I feel I know your opinion on biases. Right.

Sam-Skwantch said:

If they are still the best then they won't be pushed aside. Right. I've never heard anyone say something like Yulia,Gracie, and Adelina are so good we need to get Caro the blank out of here. Where do you hear this? The point is if they are good enough....which they are....they should be allowed to compete. Anything else would be bias and I feel I know your opinion on biases. Right.

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I like seeing the contrast between the younger and older skaters. Every generation adds a little more to the sport. Julia and Adelina have more difficult choreography and spins than their predecessors and I think when they get older you'll see the girls coming up to advance the sport in other ways.

I believe 18 should be the minimum age to compete in either the Olympics or the World Championships. After all, it is called "Ladies Figure Skating" not "Little Girls Figure Skating". Just because a skater can grab her leg and pull it up over her head doesn't make it a beautiful or artistic move.

sgsmozart said:

I believe 18 should be the minimum age to compete in either the Olympics or the World Championships. After all, it is called "Ladies Figure Skating" not "Little Girls Figure Skating". Just because a skater can grab her leg and pull it up over her head doesn't make it a beautiful or artistic move.

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Beauty and artistic are subjectevtive terms that even a dictator can't take away from his people. It's an opinion. I'm glad you don't like it...but undermining it is no more silly than saying red cars are ugly and expecting everyone to agree.

What a shameless thread!:disagree:

volk said:

What a shameless thread!:disagree:

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The maniacal conspiracy obsession thread is much much worse...

usethis2 said:

I wonder if it's feasible to have different competitions for "senior" men/women for medals in the Olympics? By "senior" I mean 28/30 or older. With somewhat different rules and judging standards.

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@Usethis2 I was thinking the exact same thing the other day. I was also thinking about adding a 3rd program of a 2min or under purely artistic program. I thought this would push the important of artistry in a way while still promoting current trend of atheleticism that a lot of us enjoy! I couldn't figure out how to make it work and that's how I landed on the notion of a +25 plus group that would focus primarily on the artistic side. People don't like change and I could not find a feasible way to make it work. You know what the say..great minds and all.