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Thread: Olympic upsets in Ladies Figure Skating

  1. #16
    축복, 축도 RABID's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post
    This year had quite a few upsets. Most people were predicting a Yuna, Mao and Julia podium. unfortunately Mao and Julia made mistakes and then Yuna came second. I do think she should have won but I was happy for Adelina and for Carolina as well
    Are you happy that in such a stacked field that includes Mao, YuNa, and Carolina, the figure skating world has declared Adelina is their BEST representative; THE FACE put forward by them as to (to the exclusion of all others) who BEST represents all that is great and REQUIRED about figure skating to the rest of the world? The logical conclusion to these results are that now all young girls should look to Adelina for examples of what kind of "great skating" judges are looking for because ostensibly her type of skating is the type that gets rewarded by those ever important judges (until Pyeongchang in 2018 that is ).

  2. #17
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    This.

    Agree with you on every single point.

    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    Except, they're rather different things. The difference between Adelina's "whole package" and Carolina/Yuna's "whole package" is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY greater than the difference between Oksana's "whole package" and Nancy's "whole package." Oksana really is the bellweather for the majority of Oly Champs of the past 20 years: It went from refined women, to youth and exuberance. The only exception to this was 2006.

    While I did make the comparison between Adelina and Oksana, I will bring up some caveats. Oksana had these things in her favor: A weakened field (being that the 92-94 Olympiad wasn't a full Olympiad), America hadn't REALLY replaced Kristi (Nancy and Tonya were fighting that out), Lu Chen was a world medalist but made mistakes, Bonaly was too wild to be a threat. Oksana was (and still is) the weakest OGM in one of the most mediocre fields of women. You can not say the same things about the field Adelina was gifted her OGM in: World and Olympic champion Yuna, World Champions Caro and Mao, etc. And the level that Caro and Yuna skate at, in EVERY sense of the word, is FAR ahead of anything Adelina has ever done (edges, flow, choreography, etc.) Where as with Oksana, all she had over Nancy was youthful exuberance. Their skating skills, etc were pretty much even.

    I am more comfortable with Oksana being an OGM than I am with Adelina being an OGM. At least Oksana had proven herself on the World stage before the Olympics. Trust me, Adelina WILL go down as one of the most controversial OGMs (except for Russia of course, who bought that OGM fair and square.) (And now, as their victory lap, they're gonna take Crimea. )

    And I am sorry, but I have not said Adelina shouldn't have medaled. I have said I would be fine either her being a bronze or even (and this is pushing it) silver medalist. However, the judges fell for the "Skating while Russian" in Russia trap, as they always do, and gave the inferior skates a medal color it didn't deserve. She may have had the skate of her life, but that doesn't mean it was the best. Caro should have won. Adelina shouldn't have even beaten Mao in the free. the whole scoring of that even (and Sochi in general) was WAYYYYY to lenient in favor of Russians.

  3. #18
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    Just watching Adelina stumble around in her gala exhibition with those flags and the fact that she is supposed to be figure skating's representative now was to say the least.

  4. #19
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Haha, 1994 is still a ***. I *like* the result, but I just don't get it in hindsight. Kerrigan with her snotty statelier-than-thou presentation versus Baiul's charisma. Anyone who dances knows how gifted Baiul is/was and how ungifted Kerrigan was/is. But technically there was just such a huge gap. What a strange competition that was.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    Except, they're rather different things. The difference between Adelina's "whole package" and Carolina/Yuna's "whole package" is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY greater than the difference between Oksana's "whole package" and Nancy's "whole package." Oksana really is the bellweather for the majority of Oly Champs of the past 20 years: It went from refined women, to youth and exuberance. The only exception to this was 2006.

    While I did make the comparison between Adelina and Oksana, I will bring up some caveats. Oksana had these things in her favor: A weakened field (being that the 92-94 Olympiad wasn't a full Olympiad), America hadn't REALLY replaced Kristi (Nancy and Tonya were fighting that out), Lu Chen was a world medalist but made mistakes, Bonaly was too wild to be a threat. Oksana was (and still is) the weakest OGM in one of the most mediocre fields of women. You can not say the same things about the field Adelina was gifted her OGM in: World and Olympic champion Yuna, World Champions Caro and Mao, etc. And the level that Caro and Yuna skate at, in EVERY sense of the word, is FAR ahead of anything Adelina has ever done (edges, flow, choreography, etc.) Where as with Oksana, all she had over Nancy was youthful exuberance. Their skating skills, etc were pretty much even.

    I am more comfortable with Oksana being an OGM than I am with Adelina being an OGM. At least Oksana had proven herself on the World stage before the Olympics. Trust me, Adelina WILL go down as one of the most controversial OGMs (except for Russia of course, who bought that OGM fair and square.) (And now, as their victory lap, they're gonna take Crimea. )

    And I am sorry, but I have not said Adelina shouldn't have medaled. I have said I would be fine either her being a bronze or even (and this is pushing it) silver medalist. However, the judges fell for the "Skating while Russian" in Russia trap, as they always do, and gave the inferior skates a medal color it didn't deserve. She may have had the skate of her life, but that doesn't mean it was the best. Caro should have won. Adelina shouldn't have even beaten Mao in the free. the whole scoring of that even (and Sochi in general) was WAYYYYY to lenient in favor of Russians.
    Agree with all of that except one thing. Nancy was CLEARY the U.S #1 at that time. The USFSA heavily anointed her as their #1 immediately after Kristi retired following the 92 Worlds. She was already getting more endorsements than Kristi in fact, and had medalled at every World and Olympic event in 91 and 92 despite skating kind of bad each time, while Tonya was seen as going downhill at that point. At the 93 Nationals both Nancy and Tonya skated poorly and Nancy won easily with super generous scores, and Tonya was dumped to 4th in favor of a low ranked international skater who also bombed. Even blowing it bigtime at the 93 Worlds when she had been favored to win the gold, did not remove Nancy from her undisputed #1 status, especialy after coming back strong in the fall 93 events, and looking like a real gold contender again (while Tonya continued to mostly flounder, being 3rd at Skate America behind Baiul and Bonaly who both skated poorly, and 4th at NHK behind Bonaly, Chen, and Sato). Tonya was never seriously considered by the USFSA as a potential #1 ever again after her 3rd place at the 92 Nationals and 4th at the 92 Olympics, and had Nancy not been clubbed no way Tonya was winning Nationals despite skating her best performances in years there; even a splatty Nancy would have been held up to win by higher presentation scores if need be.

    Now it can be said Nancy had not really replaced Kristi. 93 Worlds was her chance to do that and she failed miserably. Kristi would have had an easy time sliding right back to U.S #1 had she come back.

  6. #21
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    Eek. I just couldn't stand Kerrigan and I liked Harding's moxie. Having been to several after Nationals parties, it's hilarious she didn't show up when she won. I watched both of the new shows and just want to wring Tonya's neck. She THREW it away. Not the whack, but 1992, then 1993 where she landed maybe a total of 5 jumps in all her competitions. What the heck happened??? She always had her jumps. Maybe the style wasn't all there, but she always always had the easy breezy ginormous jumps.

  7. #22
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    It's funny, I was just thinking the other day, "Has there EVER been a gold medalist that was uncontroversial?" And the only name that sprang to mind was Shizuka Arakawa. I don't think it can actually be debated that she deserved to win that year. Of course, I was a Sasha fan rooting against her, but looking back, she did amazing and deserved it. If only it could be that simple every year.

  8. #23
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    That is the thing too. I always want to feel bad for Tonya when I watch her 1991 Nationals and Skate America performances. Look at how amazing she was there. But nobody endorsed her. Nobody told her how good she was. She had a dysfunctional family and rough childhood. I get it.

    But in these new documentaries, she doesn't take responsibility for anything. Everything is someone else's fault. She did let herself get out of shape in the 92 and 93 seasons, and that is nobody's fault but Tonya's. As we saw with Mao at these Olympics, the long lost Triple Axel can make a return. It's not impossible. And it could have returned for Tonya too had she kept herself in shape.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
    She had a dysfunctional family and rough childhood. I get it.
    But in these new documentaries, she doesn't take responsibility for anything
    The problem with family dysfunction is that the children develop coping stategies that might help them survive the dysfunction at home (so they become very attached to these strategeis that allow them to survive after a fashion) but which work against them when they find themselves in a less dysfunctional situation and they end up sabotaging themselves.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
    It's funny, I was just thinking the other day, "Has there EVER been a gold medalist that was uncontroversial?" And the only name that sprang to mind was Shizuka Arakawa. I don't think it can actually be debated that she deserved to win that year. Of course, I was a Sasha fan rooting against her, but looking back, she did amazing and deserved it. If only it could be that simple every year.
    Yes, Peggy Fleming in 1968. Hands down the class of the field. A master of school figures (some say the equal of Beatrix Schuba in her prime) and superior free skater, even though Peggy says it was not her best performance. I don't think Dorothy Hammill was too controversial in 1976, either.

  11. #26
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    Actually most ladies OGM winners are uncontroversial.

    Ann Scott in 48, Altwegg in 52, Albright in 56 (except for young whiny Heiss), Heiss in 60, Dijkstra in 64, Fleming in 68, Schuba in 72 (to those who understood the scoring system), Hamill in 76, Witt in 84, Yamaguchi in 92, Arakawa in 2006, Kim in 2010 were all completely without controversy.

    On the other hand there has never been a past ladies result that caused even close to the fury as 2014. In fact the only past result in any discipline that did was 2002 pairs, and that was mostly due to fabricated NA media hype and unfair slanting of truths, and a schizofrenic french judge.

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