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Thread: The 1 Loop Jump in a jump combo

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    this connector that was not well described
    *cringe* I know, sorry! The way I pictured it, there is no turn of the blade on the ice upon landing the first jump, and when you take off for the leap, the landing blade from the first jump is still going backwards, so I assumed that would count as a full revolution. I was just explaining it from the standpoint of the way the hips travel into the leap vs. how the blade travels into it.
    (hope that doesn't just make it even more confusing ).

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    It's not that the arms need to be lower than second position at shoulder level or slightly below -- but to set up the rotation of the second jump, CCW, the left shoulder would need to be forward and the right shoulder back before the jump, and then the shoulders would reverse when the free leg swings forward to initiate the salchow rotation. I.e., the arms in the air for the half loop could be anything that lets the skater rotate the half loop -- it's the stag position of the legs that would be more likely to slow down rotation too much -- but the arms on the landing of half loop need to be in position to allow the shoulders to check the half loop rotation and then initiate the salchow rotation. You're not going to get a triple salchow if you start with the shoulders square.
    That was massively helpful! Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Npmonice View Post
    I know it's not the case, but it can look like that to a casual viewer or no one with any skating experience.
    That's me and that's what it looked like to me, except I noticed that she turns around on her landing foot before the stepover (so she she lands with blade going backwards, and then kind of swivels around on it to face forward again, and then hops over onto the other foot for the salchow). Does that make it a totally different thing from Chan's?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by I♥Yuna View Post
    *cringe* I know, sorry! The way I pictured it, there is no turn of the blade on the ice upon landing the first jump, and when you take off for the leap, the landing blade from the first jump is still going backwards, so I assumed that would count as a full revolution. I was just explaining it from the standpoint of the way the hips travel into the leap vs. how the blade travels into it.
    (hope that doesn't just make it even more confusing ).

    That was massively helpful! Thank you


    That's me and that's what it looked like to me, except I noticed that she turns around on her landing foot before the stepover (so she she lands with blade going backwards, and then kind of swivels around on it to face forward again, and then hops over onto the other foot for the salchow). Does that make it a totally different thing from Chan's?
    It does not make it a total different thing from Patrick, it's just the technique she uses is different to Chan, hence why it appears different. At the end of the day it's the same element. It's also common for a little pre rotation on the ice before the jump/hop/step over, in this case to give her momentum to complete the salchow IMO

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Npmonice View Post
    It does not make it a total different thing from Patrick, it's just the technique she uses is different to Chan, hence why it appears different
    Okay I see

    And hang on - didn't G&G used to do the half loop? I always liked this part because it looked nice and fluid/graceful http://youtu.be/DeROVrsNl7g?t=3m59s

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by I♥Yuna View Post
    Okay I see

    And hang on - didn't G&G used to do the half loop? I always liked this part because it looked nice and fluid/graceful http://youtu.be/DeROVrsNl7g?t=3m59s
    Yes they did, in their early days also. I'm sure you can see the difference between the half loop they do compared to Alaine's . Also how the half loop they complete looks more like Patrick's, or the norm !

  5. #65
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    Okay GOOD - I'm learning something!

  6. #66
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    Shoma Uno recently did a 2A-Lo-3F!

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4AG3MNbGoQg

  7. #67
    Tripping on the Podium sowcow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    ...if you suddenly did the Lutz rotating the other direction than the previous jump. In reality I have never seen anyone doing it even with single jumps. Usually skaters rotate only in one direction. But it can't be impossible. Some skaters can spin in both directions, so why they couldn't learn jump in both directions if it was somehow appreciated with points?
    It is indeed very unusual for a skater to be able to jump in either direction (and ... to look good while doing it!)

    Don Jackson comes to mind as someone who was able to do many different types of jumps in both directions (walleys, loops, axels...).

    Here's a clip from the 1961 North American Figure Skating Championships where he does a series of 4 axels alternating the direction of rotation (CCW --> CW --> CCW --> CW).

    He also did a series of 2 axels varying the direction of rotation (CW --> CCW) in his gold medal performance at the 1962 World Championship (the one where he landed the first ever triple-lutz in competition).

    An amazing display of balance and control of the blade!!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sowcow View Post
    .


    It is indeed very unusual for a skater to be able to jump in either direction (and ... to look good while doing it!)

    Don Jackson comes to mind as someone who was able to do many different types of jumps in both directions (walleys, loops, axels...).

    Here's a clip from the 1961 North American Figure Skating Championships where he does a series of 4 axels alternating the direction of rotation (CCW --> CW --> CCW --> CW).

    He also did a series of 2 axels varying the direction of rotation (CW --> CCW) in his gold medal performance at the 1962 World Championship (the one where he landed the first ever triple-lutz in competition).

    An amazing display of balance and control of the blade!!
    I haven't visited this thread in a while and missed this post. Wow!! At the 1:55 mark was that a CCW 2a and then a half loop CW exit? This guy could jump in either direction

    That second video is beyond !!!! Who needs a quad. That 3lz had so much conter-rotation. This should be used to teach skaters how its done!!!

  9. #69
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    Just wanted to add that it may look ugly but this is super, super difficult. And I was only doing pathetic little waltz jump-half loop-salchows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I haven't visited this thread in a while and missed this post. Wow!! At the 1:55 mark was that a CCW 2a and then a half loop CW exit?
    You mean this?

    It's a CW split double lutz. He's off balance on the landing and does an extra full turn CW that does seem to leave the ice, but I can't tell for sure if it's a full single loop jump in the air or essentially a double three with one of the threes turned in the air.

  11. #71
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    You mean this?

    It's a CW split double lutz. He's off balance on the landing and does an extra full turn CW that does seem to leave the ice, but I can't tell for sure if it's a full single loop jump in the air or essentially a double three with one of the threes turned in the air.
    Yes. I was watching it with my phone plus the quality of the video made it hard to see.

    The second video is just unreal. I am still blown away by the 3lz. The counter-rotation,height and landing on a curved edge in seemingly the opposite direction as if momentum can simply be ignored defies logic....at least mine.

  12. #72
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    I'f you're cringing try watching some IsI (freestyle 6 ) programs. Hopefully they'll make you feel more comfortable since the axel half loop flip is a mandatory element. Honestly up until I had to test the combination I also didn't like it. I've found that a lot of people are just too whippy on the takeoff. It can look good! Just seems it might need to be a test element in US skating as well!

  13. #73
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    Similar to ISI, the USFS Basic Skills program includes axel-half loop-salchow in the Freeskate 6 level. But not all competitive skaters start out in Basic Skills.

    The USFS Juvenile freeskate test requires a choice of split jump, stag jump, falling leaf, or half loop.

    The Junior freeskate test requires a series of nonlisted jump(s) into a double jump. There's a long list of examples of nonlisted jumps, including half loop.

    So it's not required, and certainly not required as part of a combination between two rotational jumps, but it is an option on tests.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moxiejan View Post
    It was actually done frequently and quite beautifully by Jill Trenary; should be on YouTube.

    I think the problem with some of today's .5 loop combos is that the skater just steps into it instead of jumping it with some height and flow. There should be a definite jump-jump-jump cadence.
    Trenary did a single axel though not double.

  15. #75
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    I think it's incredibly stupid that 1/2 loops don't get any credit starting next year, but the 3X-1/2-3S still counts as a 3-jump combo (for which you only get credit for 2 jumps!). Or has it changed?

    It'd be great if a 3X-1/2-3S was considered just a 2-jump combo. It would still allow a 3-jump combo. There's no point making it a sequence because the 20% points lost on it make it worth less than a 3-2-2.

    As I said, it would be great to see someone like Radionova reel off all 5 triples (3Z+3T+3L, 3F-3S) in her first two jumping passes.

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