The 1 Loop Jump in a jump combo
- Thread starter Sam-Skwantch
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Same here :agree:
I thought Tara Lipinski's half loop combos flowed pretty well since she did the 1/2 loop so quickly. It was sort of springy.
I think one of the reasons skaters often have "choppier" looking 1/2 loops is that you don't want too much height on the 1/2 loop (more about quickness and saving energy/momentum for the last jump), and you really need to land with your free leg behind your body. So for a Salchow entry on the third jump there's a pause while they swing in the free leg. But with a flip entry it would look a lot smoother since the toe would come down in that position pretty much.
I think one of the reasons skaters often have "choppier" looking 1/2 loops is that you don't want too much height on the 1/2 loop (more about quickness and saving energy/momentum for the last jump), and you really need to land with your free leg behind your body. So for a Salchow entry on the third jump there's a pause while they swing in the free leg. But with a flip entry it would look a lot smoother since the toe would come down in that position pretty much.
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- Jan 10, 2014
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The 'amount/length of delay' either before or after the ½Lo usually is correlated to how strong (or not) the skater 'checked' the landing of the previous jump. The stronger the 'check', the more the rotation is stopped/slowed; and consequently the longer the delay needed to 'restart' the rotation (by means of the shoulders and/or the hips/free leg).
Abnormally long delays can occur before the ½Lo, or after the ½Lo; but rarely occur in both spots.
For example: 3F + ½Lo + 3S
The 'amount/length of delay' either before or after the ½Lo usually is correlated to how strong (or not) the skater 'checked' the landing of the previous jump. The stronger the 'check', the more the rotation is stopped/slowed; and consequently the longer the delay needed to 'restart' the rotation (by means of the shoulders and/or the hips/free leg).
Abnormally long delays can occur before the ½Lo, or after the ½Lo; but rarely occur in both spots.
For example: 3F + ½Lo + 3S
- If too strong a check on the landing of the 3F, then will be a long delay to 'restart' the rotation before the ½Lo + 3S portion.
- If too strong a check after the landing of the ½Lo, then will be a long delay to 'restart' the rotation for the 3S.
That would not be 'tricky', that would be impossible. All listed jumps land on the outside edge. If a skater want to have the last jump in the combination Salchow or flip, for those jumps the skater needs to be on the inside edge; that's why the skater does the half loop in between. Half look is a full revolution jump which lands on the inside edge, just ready to add the Salchow or flip. If someone did just whatever jump+ normal single loop, then the skater would exit the single loop on the outside edge and therefore would not be able to have the last jump in the combination Salchow or Flip, they would only be able to do loop or toe loop.
Re: 3T+2A instead of the more talked about 2A+3T, why would anyone want to do 3T+2A when 2A+3T brings more points? If you do 3T, you end up on back outside edge, so get forward to do the 2A would need a hop between those two jumps, which means that it would be a jump sequence and not jump combination and it would have value of only 80% of the jump value base. Whereas 2A+3T is a combination so it has the full value.
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- Jan 10, 2014
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The former is an 'easier' jump sequence; the latter a jump combination (...and worth more I believe, although I'm not sure by how much).
The former is an 'easier' jump sequence; the latter a jump combination (...and worth more I believe, although I'm not sure by how much).
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Thanks hanca! I was typing my last post before you posted that the "jump sequence ...[has a] value of only 80% of the jump value base."
The only thing I would add to your 3T + 2A sequence explanation is there is NO "need [for] a hop between those two jumps", as the skater can simply land the 3T and step forward into the 2A take-off (...still qualifies as a step sequence because of the 'step' forward before the 2nd jump).
Thanks hanca! I was typing my last post before you posted that the "jump sequence ...[has a] value of only 80% of the jump value base."
The only thing I would add to your 3T + 2A sequence explanation is there is NO "need [for] a hop between those two jumps", as the skater can simply land the 3T and step forward into the 2A take-off (...still qualifies as a step sequence because of the 'step' forward before the 2nd jump).
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- Feb 24, 2012
That would not be 'tricky', that would be impossible. All listed jumps land on the outside edge. If a skater want to have the last jump in the combination Salchow or flip, for those jumps the skater needs to be on the inside edge; that's why the skater does the half loop in between. Half look is a full revolution jump which lands on the inside edge, just ready to add the Salchow or flip. If someone did just whatever jump+ normal single loop, then the skater would exit the single loop on the outside edge and therefore would not be able to have the last jump in the combination Salchow or Flip, they would only be able to do loop or toe loop.
Exactly you got it
Re: 3T+2A instead of the more talked about 2A+3T, why would anyone want to do 3T+2A when 2A+3T brings more points? If you do 3T, you end up on back outside edge, so get forward to do the 2A would need a hop between those two jumps, which means that it would be a jump sequence and not jump combination and it would have value of only 80% of the jump value base. Whereas 2A+3T is a combination so it has the full value.
Exactly you got it - the mechanics of the edge jump or salchow causes or needs half loop not full.
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- Feb 24, 2012
20 percent more; as the sequence is worth 80percent of the full value.
To be fair, Plushenko's amazing 3axel/half loop/3flip was really a 3axel/half loop/3LIP. 
Still impressive, nonetheless.
In terms of ladies who I thought do half loop sequences/combinations well:
Tara
Sasha
Midori
Their half loops looked like actual jumps, done purposefully.
Half Loops that look like mistakes, and are sometimes not fully rotated:
Irina
Maria
Anna P.
Elena R.
Still impressive, nonetheless.In terms of ladies who I thought do half loop sequences/combinations well:
Tara
Sasha
Midori
Their half loops looked like actual jumps, done purposefully.
Half Loops that look like mistakes, and are sometimes not fully rotated:
Irina
Maria
Anna P.
Elena R.
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That's not physically possible as a loop lands on a back outside edge and the 1/2 Lo (+1Lo in Senior level combos) lands on a back inside edge
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- Mar 20, 2013
3t-half loop-3sal may not look aesthetically pleasing, but it does add more difficulty than if the 2 triples were executed separately. It gives skaters an opportunity for more choreography and other elements.
3-3s are always exciting to watch, 4-3s are too scary. 4-3s have ruined too many hips.
3-3s are always exciting to watch, 4-3s are too scary. 4-3s have ruined too many hips.
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Of course. Max and Jason are just two of the Americans doing it now. Both do 3Lz-half loop-3S.
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- Jan 25, 2013
Uh, I don't think Plushy is the paradigm when it comes to maximizing points from his jumping passes, lol.
I also agree that the 1/2 loop looks awkward, and Jason Brown and Chan are the only ones that pull it off.
It's especially awkward when the women do it... especially some of them who have such a break into it.
Every time I hear Scott Hamilton yelling "And a 3S WITH NO SPEED!!!!"
I find it baffling from a logistical point of view because if you notice, a lot of these skaters who have a triple+1Lo+3S also perform a 2A on its own. They could conceivably train a triple+2Lo+2Lo like Mao Asada or Kanako Murakami do and do the salchow on its own, which is presumably much easier, and lose a mere 0.2 points. (2A+1Lo = 3.8 points; 2Lo+2Lo = 3.6 points; the 3S and random triple remains the same in both situations). Furthermore, the positive GOE that you'd get would increase from a factor of 0.7 for the triple+1Lo+3S and 0.5 for the solo 2A to 0.7 for both the triple+2Lo+2Lo and solo 3S.
Tl;dr - it's smarter to do 2 double loops than train a half loop-salchow combination.
Tl;dr - it's smarter to do 2 double loops than train a half loop-salchow combination.
I think people use the harder triple - 1lo - 3Sal rather then the XX - 2 lo - 2 lo because it is harder - and helps with PCS scores etc. I wish they wouldn't consider it a 3 jump combo though, since the 1/2 loop is really only there to reset the take off edge for the sal or flip.
Anyone know why it's called a 1/2 loop when it does have a full revolution?
I do wish CoP would change the way it scores combos and sequences. Each should get it's own value, not just the total of the two jumps. A 3lz - 3T combo and a solo 3T should not be worth the same as a 3T x 3T and solo 3Lz
Anyone know why it's called a 1/2 loop when it does have a full revolution?
I do wish CoP would change the way it scores combos and sequences. Each should get it's own value, not just the total of the two jumps. A 3lz - 3T combo and a solo 3T should not be worth the same as a 3T x 3T and solo 3Lz
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- Jan 10, 2014
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For example, check out this beautiful (1-foot)A+3S opening jump combination by Jill Trenary (from her entertaining "These Boots are made for Walkin'" program).
For example, check out this beautiful (1-foot)A+3S opening jump combination by Jill Trenary (from her entertaining "These Boots are made for Walkin'" program).
