The 1 Loop Jump in a jump combo | Page 4 | Golden Skate

The 1 Loop Jump in a jump combo

ILuvYuna

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
this connector that was not well described
*cringe* I know, sorry! The way I pictured it, there is no turn of the blade on the ice upon landing the first jump, and when you take off for the leap, the landing blade from the first jump is still going backwards, so I assumed that would count as a full revolution. I was just explaining it from the standpoint of the way the hips travel into the leap vs. how the blade travels into it.
(hope that doesn't just make it even more confusing :slink:).

It's not that the arms need to be lower than second position at shoulder level or slightly below -- but to set up the rotation of the second jump, CCW, the left shoulder would need to be forward and the right shoulder back before the jump, and then the shoulders would reverse when the free leg swings forward to initiate the salchow rotation. I.e., the arms in the air for the half loop could be anything that lets the skater rotate the half loop -- it's the stag position of the legs that would be more likely to slow down rotation too much -- but the arms on the landing of half loop need to be in position to allow the shoulders to check the half loop rotation and then initiate the salchow rotation. You're not going to get a triple salchow if you start with the shoulders square.
That was massively helpful! Thank you :)

I know it's not the case, but it can look like that to a casual viewer or no one with any skating experience.
That's me :biggrin: and that's what it looked like to me, except I noticed that she turns around on her landing foot before the stepover (so she she lands with blade going backwards, and then kind of swivels around on it to face forward again, and then hops over onto the other foot for the salchow). Does that make it a totally different thing from Chan's?
 

Npmonice

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
I♥Yuna;888735 said:
*cringe* I know, sorry! The way I pictured it, there is no turn of the blade on the ice upon landing the first jump, and when you take off for the leap, the landing blade from the first jump is still going backwards, so I assumed that would count as a full revolution. I was just explaining it from the standpoint of the way the hips travel into the leap vs. how the blade travels into it.
(hope that doesn't just make it even more confusing :slink:).

That was massively helpful! Thank you :)


That's me :biggrin: and that's what it looked like to me, except I noticed that she turns around on her landing foot before the stepover (so she she lands with blade going backwards, and then kind of swivels around on it to face forward again, and then hops over onto the other foot for the salchow). Does that make it a totally different thing from Chan's?

It does not make it a total different thing from Patrick, it's just the technique she uses is different to Chan, hence why it appears different. At the end of the day it's the same element. It's also common for a little pre rotation on the ice before the jump/hop/step over, in this case to give her momentum to complete the salchow IMO :)
 

Npmonice

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
I♥Yuna;888781 said:
Okay I see :)

And hang on - didn't G&G used to do the half loop? :scratch: I always liked this part because it looked nice and fluid/graceful http://youtu.be/DeROVrsNl7g?t=3m59s

Yes they did, in their early days also. I'm sure you can see the difference between the half loop they do compared to Alaine's :). Also how the half loop they complete looks more like Patrick's, or the norm :)!
 

sowcow

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
.
...if you suddenly did the Lutz rotating the other direction than the previous jump. In reality I have never seen anyone doing it even with single jumps. Usually skaters rotate only in one direction. But it can't be impossible. Some skaters can spin in both directions, so why they couldn't learn jump in both directions if it was somehow appreciated with points?

It is indeed very unusual for a skater to be able to jump in either direction (and ... to look good while doing it!)

Don Jackson comes to mind as someone who was able to do many different types of jumps in both directions (walleys, loops, axels...).

Here's a clip from the 1961 North American Figure Skating Championships where he does a series of 4 axels alternating the direction of rotation (CCW --> CW --> CCW --> CW).

He also did a series of 2 axels varying the direction of rotation (CW --> CCW) in his gold medal performance at the 1962 World Championship (the one where he landed the first ever triple-lutz in competition).

An amazing display of balance and control of the blade!!
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
.


It is indeed very unusual for a skater to be able to jump in either direction (and ... to look good while doing it!)

Don Jackson comes to mind as someone who was able to do many different types of jumps in both directions (walleys, loops, axels...).

Here's a clip from the 1961 North American Figure Skating Championships where he does a series of 4 axels alternating the direction of rotation (CCW --> CW --> CCW --> CW).

He also did a series of 2 axels varying the direction of rotation (CW --> CCW) in his gold medal performance at the 1962 World Championship (the one where he landed the first ever triple-lutz in competition).

An amazing display of balance and control of the blade!!

I haven't visited this thread in a while and missed this post. Wow!! At the 1:55 mark was that a CCW 2a and then a half loop CW exit? This guy could jump in either direction:clap:

That second video is beyond :bow:!!!! Who needs a quad. That 3lz had so much conter-rotation. This should be used to teach skaters how its done!!! :yes:
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Just wanted to add that it may look ugly but this is super, super difficult. And I was only doing pathetic little waltz jump-half loop-salchows.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I haven't visited this thread in a while and missed this post. Wow!! At the 1:55 mark was that a CCW 2a and then a half loop CW exit?

You mean this?

It's a CW split double lutz. :cool: He's off balance on the landing and does an extra full turn CW that does seem to leave the ice, but I can't tell for sure if it's a full single loop jump in the air or essentially a double three with one of the threes turned in the air.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
You mean this?

It's a CW split double lutz. :cool: He's off balance on the landing and does an extra full turn CW that does seem to leave the ice, but I can't tell for sure if it's a full single loop jump in the air or essentially a double three with one of the threes turned in the air.

Yes. I was watching it with my phone plus the quality of the video made it hard to see.

The second video is just unreal. I am still blown away by the 3lz. The counter-rotation,height and landing on a curved edge in seemingly the opposite direction as if momentum can simply be ignored defies logic....at least mine.
 

ovaskater

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
I'f you're cringing try watching some IsI (freestyle 6 ) programs. Hopefully they'll make you feel more comfortable since the axel half loop flip is a mandatory element. Honestly up until I had to test the combination I also didn't like it. I've found that a lot of people are just too whippy on the takeoff. It can look good! Just seems it might need to be a test element in US skating as well!
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Similar to ISI, the USFS Basic Skills program includes axel-half loop-salchow in the Freeskate 6 level. But not all competitive skaters start out in Basic Skills.

The USFS Juvenile freeskate test requires a choice of split jump, stag jump, falling leaf, or half loop.

The Junior freeskate test requires a series of nonlisted jump(s) into a double jump. There's a long list of examples of nonlisted jumps, including half loop.

So it's not required, and certainly not required as part of a combination between two rotational jumps, but it is an option on tests.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
It was actually done frequently and quite beautifully by Jill Trenary; should be on YouTube.

I think the problem with some of today's .5 loop combos is that the skater just steps into it instead of jumping it with some height and flow. There should be a definite jump-jump-jump cadence.

Trenary did a single axel though not double.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I think it's incredibly stupid that 1/2 loops don't get any credit starting next year, but the 3X-1/2-3S still counts as a 3-jump combo (for which you only get credit for 2 jumps!). Or has it changed?

It'd be great if a 3X-1/2-3S was considered just a 2-jump combo. It would still allow a 3-jump combo. There's no point making it a sequence because the 20% points lost on it make it worth less than a 3-2-2.

As I said, it would be great to see someone like Radionova reel off all 5 triples (3Z+3T+3L, 3F-3S) in her first two jumping passes. :biggrin:
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
The way I read the rules (and confirmed with my coach), next year 3X+1Lo (1/2 Lo)+3S/F will be considered a 2 jump combination but still cannot be used in the SP.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The way I read the rules (and confirmed with my coach), next year 3X+1Lo (1/2 Lo)+3S/F will be considered a 2 jump combination but still cannot be used in the SP.

Oh that's nice to know! And yeah, I don't think a half-loop combo should be allowed in the SP.

So maybe we will see 5 different triples in 2 jumping passes from Radionova? ;)
 
Top