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Thread: Ashley Wagner's chances going forward?

  1. #16
    Tripping on the Podium
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    And who knows she may do a Kostner Although Carolina did have the the advantage of skating for a country with a relatively shallow talent pool.

  2. #17
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    I think Wagner's trump card over the other US women this past quad has been her consistency. Everyone else has been up, down, all over the place and she has provided some stability. How much is it saying that she was the only one to stay in the Worlds top 5 2 years in a row (we'll see if she can make it 3)?

    You saw what happened when she lost that trump card this year...just a rather ordinary, above-average skater who was held up by her past triumphs in order to be selected to the team this time around. Even if Wagner gave Nationals her best effort she STILL would not have won. What kept her above Gold to this point was, again, consistency. Gold was still learning how to compete, but now that Gold has gained some consistency, she has bypassed Wagner and likely will never look back (she'll still need to watch her back for other up-and-coming skaters though).

  3. #18
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertskates View Post
    I'm thinking that this season may have been a rougher one for the Olympic year than she anticipated. A change of primary coach, change in choreographer, and a program she wrestled to make work for her the whole time. She has a good Skate America and TB, and came out fighting at the Olympics. I'm not going to write her off because of two competitions.
    I think given more time with Rafael, starting out with programs she loves, we may see a stronger Ashley turn up next year. I'm not sure about 4 years, but I do think she'll at least be around until Worlds '16 in the US. I wish her and all the ladies the best.
    Good stuff, thank you!

    People are too quick to write people off based of their last competition. Six months ago, some were questioning whether Gracie would even make the Olympic team. Now suddenly she's America's best hope.

    Not that this is an excuse, but probably worth mentioning that Ashley went through a lot emotionally outside of skating. Her parents divorced in the last year and I believe she also ended a relationship. I think considering that and plus the stress that comes with an Olympic year, she did pretty well.

    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I think Wagner's trump card over the other US women this past quad has been her consistency. Everyone else has been up, down, all over the place and she has provided some stability. How much is it saying that she was the only one to stay in the Worlds top 5 2 years in a row (we'll see if she can make it 3)?

    You saw what happened when she lost that trump card this year...just a rather ordinary, above-average skater who was held up by her past triumphs in order to be selected to the team this time around. Even if Wagner gave Nationals her best effort she STILL would not have won. What kept her above Gold to this point was, again, consistency. Gold was still learning how to compete, but now that Gold has gained some consistency, she has bypassed Wagner and likely will never look back (she'll still need to watch her back for other up-and-coming skaters though).
    All good points, which is why all the Ashley entitlement talk I've been seeing of late is pretty ridiculous. She definitely had to work for every placement she got over the years and when you opt to break out on your own so your parents don't have to pay your skating bills anymore is definitely NOT an example of a skater that is entitled.

    As to whether Gold permanently has by-passed Ashley is likely, but not definite. My hope is that Frank will get her accustomed to being a winner and a metal contender. I think it was pretty telling in Frank Carroll's interview to Michelle Kwan that his mantra with Gracie was for her to skate clean not to focus on medals. How will she do now that she's in this new position as America's No. 1 at Worlds? We shall see!

  4. #19
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    To me Wagner has reached her true potential. She won't go forward unless other skaters go backwards. She benefited from her strong personality and consistency. At home she has Gracie and Edmund, and internationally, it's a little better since the top ladies are going to retire. But in 4 years, I bet at least two Russian skaters are going to be very consistent in competitions. I think in an interview she mentioned that the feeling of being in Sochi made her decide to continue another 4 years. Not sure what that means exactly.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    People are too quick to write people off based of their last competition. Six months ago, some were questioning whether Gracie would even make the Olympic team. Now suddenly she's America's best hope.
    I wasn't one of them - I was consistent in saying that if she could get it together, she'd be a more promising medal hope for us in Sochi than Wagner, and the way events played out proved this to be right (even though she came up short).

    As to whether Gold permanently has by-passed Ashley is likely, but not definite. My hope is that Frank will get her accustomed to being a winner and a metal contender. I think it was pretty telling in Frank Carroll's interview to Michelle Kwan that his mantra with Gracie was for her to skate clean not to focus on medals. How will she do now that she's in this new position as America's No. 1 at Worlds? We shall see!
    Gold's performance at Worlds is critical. It really is. This is her time to make a statement and a legit chance to get onto the world podium. But, like I always say, it's harder staying on top than it is getting there. I'll be interested to see how she handles the pressure of defending a title next year.

    And yes, it's possible that I'm speaking too soon when I say that Gold has forever passed Wagner - because there are still many variables in play that could swing the pendulum back around. But I don't see that happening unless a) injury occurs or b) her old demons return.

    Honestly though, you never know.

    I think in an interview [Wagner] mentioned that the feeling of being in Sochi made her decide to continue another 4 years. Not sure what that means exactly.
    I was wondering as well. But I think the Olympics are more than medals to the vast majority of athletes. It seems like quite the experience and honor to simply take part in what is essentially a sport festival. I can understand Wagner wanting that experience a 2nd time, just like Nagasu did (and seeing how devastated she was when finding out she didn't make it).

  6. #21
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    I'm rooting for Wagner to pull off an AndO

    Getting a spark lit in your skating and grades only in post Olympics seasons

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wootie View Post
    That being said, I know she's said she wants to continue competing for another four years and, perhaps, make another appearance in Pyeongchang in 2018. Realistically, what are her chances of making the Olympic team in four years? And does she have a legit shot at doing well competitively over the next four years? I like her as a person, but I think we've sort of seen Ashley push the limits of her skating talent...and to be honest she isn't exactly on the same level as the top tier girls. I don't think it has anything to do with her drive, ambition, how hard she practices, etc. I think, unfortunately, it sort of just comes down to innate talent. Ashley doesn't have the smoothest, easiest edges, her knees aren't as springy, she has a hard time getting that 3-3 to go down, etc.

    Still, maybe she'll surprise us. What do you guys think about her prospects going forward?
    She needs to get better at the technique and up the artistry (choreography) ; if she doesn't improve her technique and make that 3 - 3 more consistent then she's not going to be a podium contender unless the other contenders mess up. The reason figure skaters stay around for 3 cycles and are legit contenders for the Olympic team is that either: they represent a country with a small talent pool or their talent grows to a level of 'rarely beatable', like Asada.

  8. #23
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    One of the things about Ashley and the Olympics I found interesting is that after the team event, she essentially said, now I am going to train the way Rafael wants me to train. Which leads me to suspect that she didn't train as hard as she could have. The difference in a week was pretty amazing. She skated both of her IE events with real fire and attack. She may want to consider doing a Mao with Rafael--start again with the basics, train the way he wants her to train. And then see what happens.

    She does have a limited range--Juliet proved that--but within that range she's quite a good interpretative skater.

  9. #24
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    ^ I think that was after Nationals, when she chose to replace her FS...she said something to the effect that she gave herself completely to RA in hopes of "making [her] worthy of being an Olympian". I think her confidence was really shot after what happened in Boston...she really made a lot of progress in a short amount of time. If she fully dedicates herself over the next 3 weeks leading up to the world championships, she may be back to having an outside shot at the podium (of course, depending on how others do like always).

    IIRC, post-Olympics worlds are usually poorly-skated anyway since everyone is exhausted from the Olympics. Sometimes I wonder why they even bother to have Worlds in Olympic years...

  10. #25
    Tripping on the Podium
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    It's rare to see a skater really improve after 22 or 23 -- they're usually really just trying to maintain their skills. To seriously contend -- even for just the U.S. podium -- Ashley will have to improve. I hope she'll pull a shocker and grab a bronze at world's; might be her last chance.

  11. #26
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    I hope Ashley will do well at Worlds. Maybe even a bronze. But I agree age is catching up and rarely can a Skater maintain, much less improve as they get older.

  12. #27
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    When ashley first appeared on the scene, she skated fearlessly and with abandon, but somewhere along the line she lost that for some reason. I hope she gets that back: throws caution to the winds.

  13. #28
    In search of a summer sport to love <3 desertskates's Avatar
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    I really hope for two things for her right now to help her going forward. A Worlds medal, it's entirely possible. And a sports psychologist. I read she never saw one and followed her dad's advice to "stop being a wimp". That's only going to make a person hard on themselves and could be counter productive. Maybe a psychologist wouldn't help, but it certainly couldn't hurt.

  14. #29
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    Bluntly, IMO, she has a lot to improve on still if she wants to make the podium at major international events. I think she was (rightly) heartened by her progress and ascent, and assumed she could just keep ascending, perhaps riding a JuLip esque PCS wave. However, the fact is, her jumps (while consistently landed) are generally mediocre, and she does not have a fully rotated triple triple when it is called correctly. She just does not. Her spins are also mediocre and she struggles to get level 4 on them- often, too often for someone who wants to actually land on podium at major international events, she gets level 2. Until she improves all of this, she will continue to rely on the mistakes of others for high placements on the GP and at Worlds. She only places as high as she does generally because she often goes clean in a very unclean field.

    Additionally, she is in denial I think about her PCS which also need work. in the team event I did think they were too low relative to others but the truth is her basis SS are good, her choreography is acceptable, and her transitions are very good. Her PE and IN are also good sometimes very good- sometimes just good. There is not a single category, IMO, where she is currently 'excellent' and not in need of improvement if she wants to break through further.

    I wouldn't say I am a Ashley fan, but I respect her greatly and am no hater. She pulled herself up through sheer hard work and courageous life changes, and I can't not respect and value that. But she probably has a lot more hard work ahead of her if she ever wants to even be US #1 again, and she definitely does if she wants to contend for a World podium, even this year (again, barring major mistakes by others).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertskates View Post
    I really hope for two things for her right now to help her going forward. A Worlds medal, it's entirely possible. And a sports psychologist. I read she never saw one and followed her dad's advice to "stop being a wimp". That's only going to make a person hard on themselves and could be counter productive. Maybe a psychologist wouldn't help, but it certainly couldn't hurt.
    Her dad is something else imo. When she complained to him about having to live on a three ingredient diet, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, his response was that for a period in his life he had lived on a one ingredient diet, ramen noodles.

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