Ashley Wagner's chances going forward?

karlowens2 · Mar 6, 2014

KJGL said:
Another four year Olympic cycle is a rough go for a female skater who's 22 now, but over the next year or so...

I think she has an opportunity to either hold her position in the top ten or move up, but it's up to her, because based on what the judges did with her score at the Olympics there's also a chance she could continue to slide.

They gave her an almost identical combined score as her personal best combined score, which could be a message that's the max score they're going to give her based on the current levels of difficulty and execution in her programs.

If that's accurate then she has to up her game.

It´s a valid point. All he others got an Olympics bump. Why not Ashley? (I felt she was underscored in the free.) I think if she is going to move up she will have to find something new in her skating. She has power, drive and psycological stamina. Now, time to find some new poetry or deeper meaning in what she does.

karlowens2 · Mar 6, 2014

I forgot one thing. It´s not impossible. Look at Kostner. How many times did people say (including her) that she had peaked - a few times I think. Also, there could be a backlash in the scoring of ISU. Maturity may become more important that it has in the last few years.

Olympic · Mar 6, 2014

I think there is still room for improvement: Hit the 3-3 when it counts; find choreography that suits her; try to get a true lutz and maybe repeat that jump in the LP / use it in the SP. She was doing a 3(f)lutz-3loop back around '08, so maybe she could do that, but just do it w/ proper edges and landings. I know it's a big ask but these are avenues she'll have to travel to get the respect of the judges and be a podium contender.

Judges are willing to reward her when they see improvements. She just needs to find a way to keep improving and stay relevant

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 7, 2014

There is still room for improvement with her, but the PCS scoring in the SP in Sochi clearly shows that the judges regard her as one of the top skaters. Like Kostner, she could develop better consistency with her 3-3 combination... she's only made the 3-3 a priority this season, which is something that apparently only worked for Kostner (as far as I know). I think with less pressure at Worlds, and a strong Olympic showing to bounce back after Nationals, Ashley is slated for a confident skate.

sky_fly20 · Mar 7, 2014

Wagner will be dumped starting next season
with the eligibility of Polina in Senior GPs
and Karen Chen and Amber Glenn the next year being senior eligible

there is always Holllywood that she can try,
maybe some B casting acting and other fame methods to get money

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 7, 2014

sky_fly20 said:
Wagner will be dumped starting next season
with the eligibility of Polina in Senior GPs
and Karen Chen and Amber Glenn the next year being senior eligible

there is always Holllywood that she can try,
maybe some B casting acting and other fame methods to get money

Hah, she'll still get more B casting acting and money than you'll ever get. :laugh:

Whatever, Ashley has done great for herself. Gold and Edmunds have tons of work to do to even come close to matching her accolades. Heck, Gold has yet to even win an international competition.

Jammers · Mar 7, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Hah, she'll still get more B casting acting and money than you'll ever get.

Whatever, Ashley has done great for herself. Gold and Edmunds have tons of work to do to even come close to matching her accolades. Heck, Gold has yet to even win an international competition.

Well Ashley was almost 21 before she won any international competition and it took until she was 21 before she finally won a GP event. Gracie is already more accomplished at the same age then Ashley was.

sky_fly20 · Mar 7, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Hah, she'll still get more B casting acting and money than you'll ever get.

Whatever, Ashley has done great for herself. Gold and Edmunds have tons of work to do to even come close to matching her accolades. Heck, Gold has yet to even win an international competition.

and what are Wagner's accolades ?
she isn't even a Worlds medalist :laugh:

what Gracie has achieved now has already surpassed what Wagner achieved
Gracie is also young, fresh and beautiful

Mrs. P · Mar 7, 2014

sky_fly20 said:
and what are Wagner's accolades ?
she isns't even a Worlds medalist

Your posts are :rofl:

Seriously, stop.

jenaj · Mar 7, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Hah, she'll still get more B casting acting and money than you'll ever get.

Whatever, Ashley has done great for herself. Gold and Edmunds have tons of work to do to even come close to matching her accolades. Heck, Gold has yet to even win an international competition.

Gracie is a National Champion and silver medalist and 4th place at the Olympics. Just like Mirai Nagasu in 2010. And Mirai was just 16. Four years is a long time. No one can predict if Gracie will live up to the hype and Polina is totally untested.

Jammers · Mar 7, 2014

jenaj said:
Gracie is a National Champion and silver medalist and 4th place at the Olympics. Just like Mirai Nagasu in 2010. And Mirai was just 16. Four years is a long time. No one can predict if Gracie will live up to the hype and Polina is totally untested.

Gracie seems to be more disciplined then Mirai was at the time. Plus unlike Mirai who struggled even back then with underrotated jumps Gracie has no such problems and she's done growing unlike Mirai who was very petite at 16 but who's body continued to change for the next couple years.

noskates · Mar 7, 2014

I think Gracie has a wonderful future ahead of her. When Ashley was her age she had horrible consistency issues - was always close but never quite there. It was only at the 2012 Nats where she really started coming into her own. From that perspective I think Gracie is ahead of Ashley at this point in time. As for Gracie and Mirai, the difference there is the work ethic. I think Gracie has found a niche with Frank and will hopefully stay with him through her career. If so - I expect great things from her. I have no clue what to expect from Mirai in the coming year. Hopefully she'll get a grand prix assignment and do well.

Polina has the technical ability now just needs the finesses that maturity and competition will bring her. Karen Chen is awesome and altho her technical ability is on the senior level - she has a ways to go before she'll really be competitive on that level with the likes of Gracie and maybe Ashley. The rest of the juniors that I saw this year at Nats really have some maturing to do over the next 4 years if they're to be competitive on the world level. JMO....

ice coverage · Mar 7, 2014

sky_fly20 said:
and what are Wagner's accolades ?
she isn't even a Worlds medalist

Wagner's accolades? Glad that you asked. A partial list:

- Four Continents gold 2012
- GPF silver 2012; GPF bronze 2013; GPF fourth place 2009
- GP gold x 3; GP silver x 2; GP bronze x 4
- U.S. Nationals: gold x 2; bronze x 2; pewter x 2
- captain of Team USA (gold medalists) at WTT 2013
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00008996.htm

sky_fly20 said:
what Gracie has achieved now has already surpassed what Wagner achieved

Wrong. Refer to list above.
The fact that Gold has outplaced Wagner twice in 2014 does not mean that your statement is true.
It does mean that Worlds and next season will be very interesting for both ladies.

Tearing down Wagner only makes you look ridiculous. It does not help Gold one bit.
Gold's future is in her own hands, and it looks promising. But her achievements to date do not surpass Wagner's.

sky_fly20 said:
Gracie is also young, fresh and beautiful

If you want to discuss personal qualities unrelated to TES and PCS:
Wagner is young. Gold is younger.
As previously noted in other threads, freshness and beauty are in the eye of the beholder. Let's just say that no young lady has a monopoly on either.

tulosai · Mar 7, 2014

noskates;882241 I have no clue what to expect from Mirai in the coming year. Hopefully she'll get a grand prix assignment and do well.[/QUOTE said:
Even after Olys, Mirai is 21 on the Seasons best list and 23 on the World rankings list. If you are in the top 25 on either list you are guaranteed one assignment (being in the top 25 on both lists will not guarantee you two though- still only one). While it is POSSIBLE Mirai will be knocked off the world standing top 25, it is virtually impossible she will be knocked off the top 25 seasons best scores. Therefore, she should be guaranteed 1 GP assignment barring a HUGE surprise at worlds from 5 people (if 4 pass her she will still be #25 and get one assignment). I believe only 3 people going who currently have a seasons best score lower than hers have ANY realistic possibility of passing her- Meite, Marchei, and Osmond. One or two more could pass her with the best skate of their past 4 years (GEDEVANISHVILI anyone?)

But yeah, I'd basically bet all the money in my checking account that Mirai's spot in the top 25 seasons best is safe.

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 7, 2014

Can anyone at junior worlds bump her?

ClockwiseSpinner · Mar 7, 2014

Sorry... but how can you make a comparison between Wagner and Kostner?

Wagner never had a real 3-3, she never won a major international title, she's not special artistically.
Kostner was doing incredible 3-3 (and even more like 3-3-2) since she was a teenager, she has always had top qualities in skating (speed, jumps, flow). That's what brought her to win several world medals, and later to become world champion and olympic medalist.

I actually like Wagner, I think she has some good spirit in skating and she is: solid.
But she doesn't have the talent the top skaters have. She just doesn't.
She may still win a medal if others fall at these post-olympic worlds.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 7, 2014

golden411 said:
Wagner's accolades? Glad that you asked. A partial list:

- Four Continents gold 2012
- GPF silver 2012; GPF bronze 2013; GPF fourth place 2009
- GP gold x 3; GP silver x 2; GP bronze x 4
- U.S. Nationals: gold x 2; bronze x 2; pewter x 2
- captain of Team USA (gold medalists) at WTT 2013
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00008996.htm

Thank you. As for a comparison as to whether "what Gracie has achieved now has already surpassed what Wagner achieved", it isn't even close: :laugh:

- GP silver x 1; GP bronze x 1
- US Classic silver x 2 (beaten by Zawadski and Hicks)
- US Nationals: gold x 1; silver x 1
- bronze at WTT 2013
# of GP golds: 0 (Ashley has 3)
# of ISU Championships: 0 (Ashley has 1)
# of GPF appearances: 0 (Ashley has 3, including 2 medals)
Total # of senior medals: 8 (Ashley has 16)
Total # of senior international wins: 0 (Ashley has 4)

With time, I totally think Gold is a contender and is World Champion material, but please - saying she has already surpassed what Wagner has achieved is incredibly delusional, even for a rabid fan like you, sky_fly. :rofl:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 7, 2014

ClockwiseSpinner said:
Wagner never had a real 3-3, she never won a major international title, she's not special artistically

She's actually landed ratified 3-3 combos multiple times this season, and has landed them in past seasons. And while it isn't Worlds or the Olympics, she's won Four Continents (one of the two major ISU Championships, the other being Europeans), and come 2nd at the Grand Prix Final, which is pretty admirable. I agree that she's not the most artistic, but she does skate with tenacity and fire, instead of all frilly and flowy, and that makes her more interesting to watch. Arguably, she has the greatest contrast between her two programs of the ladies this year.

ClockwiseSpinner · Mar 7, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
She's actually landed ratified 3-3 combos multiple times this season, and has landed them in past seasons. And while it isn't Worlds or the Olympics, she's won Four Continents (one of the two major ISU Championships, the other being Europeans), and come 2nd at the Grand Prix Final, which is pretty admirable.

Yes, I meant her 3-3 has never been "rock solid" through the years.
I admire her for her titles, I was just pointing out that it's a bit too much to hope that at age 22 (right?)
she could have an exploit like Kostner did... she lacks the base material.
I still prefer to watch her skate 100 times than Gracie Gold. I find Gold terribly boring -_-

jace93 · Mar 7, 2014

maybe reach the level of kostner no, but suzuki is even older but she became a contender only in the last quad, with a technical ability inferior to wagner (adn while I think she is a better artist than Ashley her pcs never really reflected it)... so I think completely write her off his quite audacious to say the least...

Ashley Wagner's chances going forward?

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