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Thread: Ashley Wagner's chances going forward?

  1. #76
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    Sorry... but how can you make a comparison between Wagner and Kostner?

    Wagner never had a real 3-3, she never won a major international title, she's not special artistically.
    Kostner was doing incredible 3-3 (and even more like 3-3-2) since she was a teenager, she has always had top qualities in skating (speed, jumps, flow). That's what brought her to win several world medals, and later to become world champion and olympic medalist.

    I actually like Wagner, I think she has some good spirit in skating and she is: solid.
    But she doesn't have the talent the top skaters have. She just doesn't.
    She may still win a medal if others fall at these post-olympic worlds.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Wagner's accolades? Glad that you asked. A partial list:
    - Four Continents gold 2012
    - GPF silver 2012; GPF bronze 2013; GPF fourth place 2009
    - GP gold x 3; GP silver x 2; GP bronze x 4
    - U.S. Nationals: gold x 2; bronze x 2; pewter x 2
    - captain of Team USA (gold medalists) at WTT 2013
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00008996.htm
    Thank you. As for a comparison as to whether "what Gracie has achieved now has already surpassed what Wagner achieved", it isn't even close:
    - GP silver x 1; GP bronze x 1
    - US Classic silver x 2 (beaten by Zawadski and Hicks)
    - US Nationals: gold x 1; silver x 1
    - bronze at WTT 2013
    # of GP golds: 0 (Ashley has 3)
    # of ISU Championships: 0 (Ashley has 1)
    # of GPF appearances: 0 (Ashley has 3, including 2 medals)
    Total # of senior medals: 8 (Ashley has 16)
    Total # of senior international wins: 0 (Ashley has 4)

    With time, I totally think Gold is a contender and is World Champion material, but please - saying she has already surpassed what Wagner has achieved is incredibly delusional, even for a rabid fan like you, sky_fly.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockwiseSpinner View Post
    Wagner never had a real 3-3, she never won a major international title, she's not special artistically
    She's actually landed ratified 3-3 combos multiple times this season, and has landed them in past seasons. And while it isn't Worlds or the Olympics, she's won Four Continents (one of the two major ISU Championships, the other being Europeans), and come 2nd at the Grand Prix Final, which is pretty admirable. I agree that she's not the most artistic, but she does skate with tenacity and fire, instead of all frilly and flowy, and that makes her more interesting to watch. Arguably, she has the greatest contrast between her two programs of the ladies this year.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    She's actually landed ratified 3-3 combos multiple times this season, and has landed them in past seasons. And while it isn't Worlds or the Olympics, she's won Four Continents (one of the two major ISU Championships, the other being Europeans), and come 2nd at the Grand Prix Final, which is pretty admirable.
    Yes, I meant her 3-3 has never been "rock solid" through the years.
    I admire her for her titles, I was just pointing out that it's a bit too much to hope that at age 22 (right?)
    she could have an exploit like Kostner did... she lacks the base material.
    I still prefer to watch her skate 100 times than Gracie Gold. I find Gold terribly boring -_-

  5. #80
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    maybe reach the level of kostner no, but suzuki is even older but she became a contender only in the last quad, with a technical ability inferior to wagner (adn while I think she is a better artist than Ashley her pcs never really reflected it)... so I think completely write her off his quite audacious to say the least...

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Can anyone at junior worlds bump her?
    I don't think anyone at junior worlds is old enough for the GP.

  7. #82
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    What I wonder about is if Ashley gets surpassed by Gracie and another skater such as Polina, if she will continue on in a situation where she is always fighting for the 3rd spot at Nationals.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    and what are Wagner's accolades ?
    she isn't even a Worlds medalist

    what Gracie has achieved now has already surpassed what Wagner achieved
    Gracie is also young, fresh and beautiful
    Skyfly, isn't it exhausting to tear someone down all the time to try to push someone else forward? Seriously, I would think you'd get sad or just plain tired of it after a while.

    In the meantime CanadianSkaterGuy has some cold, hard numbers above you can look over.

  9. #84
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    No, Ashley doesn't have the raw talent that a Yuna or Mao or Caro has, but I LOVE watching her skate. She doesn't put you to sleep, she skates with attack and fire and it is great to watch, unlike some other skaters' programs that are of higher technical quality but boring to watch. I feel the same way about Kaetlyn Osmond- not perfect technically but super entertaining to observe. We need great entertaining quality in skating too, not just jumping!

  10. #85
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    Ashley is done. What she lacked in fundamentals, she made up for in consistency. You can learn consistency, and Kostner is an inspiration to us all, but you can't re-learn fundamentals. The fact is, the 3-3 has become a "sine qua non" for the ladies as much as the Quad has for the men. Ashley doesn't have it and thus she cannot be one of the top ladies.

    I love her personality and I will remember her fondly, but I have the feeling she will have a poor showing at 2015 Nationals and will quietly, gracefully recede after that. And maybe in 4 years she will be a fun commentator. She is outspoken, I could see her offering new/different opinions that you don't get from Bezic/Hamilton.

  11. #86
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    Not particularly a fan of Ashley's but come on!!! Top 10 in the Olys? That's not too shabby. I don't think she's done. I may feel differently after Worlds but I think it's kind of cruel to just summarily write her off. She may have to work harder than some but she has the guts and the wherewithal.

    I don't care AT ALL for Carolina Kostner. I find her skating to be somewhat boring. I just don't think she's all that special but I'm also not ready to say she's "done" either.

    I think Worlds will be telling.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    For the short program, in 1988 all the skaters would have been doing pretty much the same elements. The only difference would have been the jump combination. And perhaps, using 2014 rules, level B vs. level 1 for some spins and steps. I don't think anyone would have earned level 2 by today's rules, but it might be possible.

    Beyond that, the distinctions would mostly come down to GOEs and PCS. There's room for more difference of opinion there.

    Do you want to collect videos of these performances so we can all watch the same versions? And those who want could try our hand at scoring PCS and GOEs?

    I wouldn't expect complete agreement among Golden Skate posters or among official judges. So the more people who offer scores, the more representative consensus could be developed.
    It's NOT shabby, but you don't keep competing to come in 7th unless you have a legitimate chance to be cream of the crop. Like, if you have a bad skate but otherwise would have been a medal contender, you keep going (e.g. Mao Asada, whose short program was a disaster, but whose long program was considered by many to be one of the best, if not THE best). If you are getting 7th and 7th was the best you could have hoped for, you retire.

  13. #88
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    There are plenty of skaters, especially in Europe where many countries are represented, that are continually ranked below #10 in the world and they continue. Sometimes for years. If a person loves what they are doing, are not injured, and not bleeding their entire family dry on the $ front, by all means--keep going!

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertskates View Post
    There are plenty of skaters, especially in Europe where many countries are represented, that are continually ranked below #10 in the world and they continue. Sometimes for years. If a person loves what they are doing, are not injured, and not bleeding their entire family dry on the $ front, by all means--keep going!
    That is Europe though. In the US there are girls chomping at the bit to replace Ashley.

    Carolina Kostner was able to keep going until she got in the zone. U.S. skaters do not have that luxury.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockwiseSpinner View Post
    Yes, I meant her 3-3 has never been "rock solid" through the years.
    I admire her for her titles, I was just pointing out that it's a bit too much to hope that at age 22 (right?)
    she could have an exploit like Kostner did... she lacks the base material.
    I still prefer to watch her skate 100 times than Gracie Gold. I find Gold terribly boring -_-
    Um, many skaters' 3-3's haven't been rock solid over the years, including Kostner and Asada.

    I don't find Gold boring, but I find her too "classic", and it's just pretty and not yet exciting. Wagner has spunk and electrifies a crowd. Gold puts on a technical show and looks elegant.

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