Davis and White competing on Dancing With the Stars!

A little O/T - does anybody have any links to youtube videos where Kurt Browning's commentary towards D/W seemed unfair? Because I have heard before that people thought so, but I don't normally watch the CBC versions of things on youtube. The only performance I've seen with Kurt's commentary was D/W at Skate America last year, and he didn't have anything bad to say (although I'm wondering how the tone would change if V/M had also been at the competition). It's just for my own curiosity.

I've never heard Kurt say anything BAD about them in his performance commentary, but he's short on praise for them even when they have a strong performance. Like at Worlds last year I think the nicest thing he said about their free dance, which they nailed, was something like "smart choreography and good execution often do yield great results."

The only outright criticism I remember him leveling at them was something he wrote about their chemistry/connection going into the 2012-2013 season:

Meryl Davis and Charlie White from the U.S. - They're working hard both on and off the ice. With interviews designed to help us notice their new connection and lots of on-ice hugging it is obvious they felt they could improve on their togetherness. Their long program misses the mark for me though, and the distance between the pack and these two gets smaller.

Admittedly, these are my words alone and the judges don't seem to agree. Dance is almost as much emotion as it is steps, speed and skill for me and I'm a fan of this team, but still think their long program is vulnerable. But, I won't be a judge in Sochi at the Grand Prix so tune in and see.-Kurt Browning

Earlier this week, Kurt Browning went on the offensive, attacking Marlie, as the latest henchman of Skate Canada. It is amazing how Skate Canada coordinates and sticks to a message with the precision of the GOP during the Bush-Cheney-Rove years. While it may be annoying to those who see the improvement and talent in Davis and White, it is ultimately a compliment: the Canadians are feeling threatened.

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I think the commentary is Dave Lease's (sp?). I do think it's a bit rich of anyone advocating for Virtue and Moir to accuse another team of choreographed hugs and oogling on the ice, lol. (I assume this complaint was inspired by their Skate America thing where Charlie picked Meryl up after the performance?) Tessa and Scott's connection was great, but come on, it's not like all those long looks and hand kisses and stuff before/after their performance were spontaneous.

Ok, that makes sense. I don't want to get into a V/M vs D/W debate (my God no!)

I once read Kurt's autobiography from the early 90s, and it was almost like it wasn't a book about skating, it was a book about belonging to this awesome fun club called Skate Canada and how much everybody loves each other and how supportive they are. And I don't think it was at all disingenuous. Canadian skaters are lucky to have a federation that supports them so well. But I don't think the skaters ever really leave that family or lose the intense loyalty, which leads to subtle bias in even the best commentators.

True, I think we've all had enough of those to last a lifetime! Both teams are fab, anyway. <3

To get us back on topic, this is a really good interview with Meryl from icenetwork: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/04/22/72988826

Some of the more interesting quotes:

"I had a lot of input and really designed my costumes for skating, so coming into this I thought I'd sort of design the costumes," she added. "But Maks has had amazing ideas and really has had control over the costumes.

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"That's greatly attributed to Maks and his vision for choreography: his ability to help get me into what he's trying to say with the dance," she noted. "In addition to that, his ability to get me to understand how to get out of my shell is something that I wasn't really expecting. I don't have any real inhibitions on the dance floor."

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"I had so much fun standing back and watching the male pros interacting and coming up with ideas," Davis said. "It's a really cool dynamic. Watching them shoot ideas back and forth, I felt I was witnessing something special. It was a very cool experience."

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I agree with what many have said. Meryl is connecting with Maks very, very well and she's shown a wide range of emotions/feelings: fierce (tango, argentine tango), sweet/loving (foxtrot), fun/happy (swing, cha cha). I would like to see some more connection between Charlie and Sharna and him not doing so many "happy" dances/expand his range. We'll see how he does next week with paso doble. I really think that Charlie's relationship with Tanith is affecting his ability to emote and connect with his partners, even with Meryl on ice although that has gotten so much better now. Charlie has this idea that you can't act in love with your dance partner just for the dance, otherwise it's being unfaithful to Tanith I think which is holding him back a little bit in the emotion department.

My impression is that Kurt tends more toward backhanded compliments when discussing D/W rather than direct criticism, particularly after they've skated really well. He's always complimentary of their lifts and speed. However, he tends to focus heavily on comparing their connection or, in his opinion, the lack thereof against V/M. My impression is that he has a very specific vision of the on-ice relationship that top ice dance teams should have and that V/M are the basis for that ideal. He does not appear to be flexible in accepting the variety of connection types which other (including the judges) find acceptable and valid. This gives me the impression that he only sees D/W as technical robots. A point of view with which I thoroughly disagree.

On the BBC, Robin Cousins, directly addressed this as D/W entered the k/c after the FD. He said "It's a different emotional connection that you have with these two than the Canadians, but you do have it with them."

Kurt's comment at the end of the D/W's FD in Sochi was "Another perfect run-through." That rings as a bit dismissive and diminishing of their effort. This was said immediately after Carol Lane made a much more straightforward and positive comment calling the skate "another flawless performance." They both then go on to comment (with almost a tinge of ruefulness) on their consistency, steady performance level and nerve before Carol notes that their comments could sound like a criticism ("It's a frightening level of consistency. I mean we almost say that like it a bad thing, when that's what you strive for.") However, Kurt then goes on to contrast "the thrill of expectation" against the fact that they always skate as well you expect them to, concluding the Sandra Bezic once said "there needs to be a box you can check for magic." He appears to be acknowledging that they skated quite well, but saying that he felt nothing from their performance. That's his right, but he could express it a lot better.

On another note, while Dave Lease can be blunt and sometimes off base, I agree with him about Skate Canada being much more on message across media platforms. Dave was not always as big a fan of D/W as he became later. On his old AuntJoyce blog, he was a much bigger V/M fan really until this season. He loved their latin FD, Carmen, Mahler, etc. By contrast he warmed up later to D/W's programs later in the season almost every year.

kauh888 said:

I agree with what many have said. Meryl is connecting with Maks very, very well and she's shown a wide range of emotions/feelings: fierce (tango, argentine tango), sweet/loving (foxtrot), fun/happy (swing, cha cha). I would like to see some more connection between Charlie and Sharna and him not doing so many "happy" dances/expand his range. We'll see how he does next week with paso doble. I really think that Charlie's relationship with Tanith is affecting his ability to emote and connect with his partners, even with Meryl on ice although that has gotten so much better now. Charlie has this idea that you can't act in love with your dance partner just for the dance, otherwise it's being unfaithful to Tanith I think which is holding him back a little bit in the emotion department.

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Interesting perspective! Sharna does her best to hang all over him in the interviews, etc.

Welcome to Golden Skate, kauh888; post long and often!

kauh888 said:

I agree with what many have said. Meryl is connecting with Maks very, very well and she's shown a wide range of emotions/feelings: fierce (tango, argentine tango), sweet/loving (foxtrot), fun/happy (swing, cha cha). I would like to see some more connection between Charlie and Sharna and him not doing so many "happy" dances/expand his range. We'll see how he does next week with paso doble. I really think that Charlie's relationship with Tanith is affecting his ability to emote and connect with his partners, even with Meryl on ice although that has gotten so much better now. Charlie has this idea that you can't act in love with your dance partner just for the dance, otherwise it's being unfaithful to Tanith I think which is holding him back a little bit in the emotion department.

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I often wondered. Their 2009, pre Tanith, Samson & Delilah Fd was quite steamy.

Nah, these guys are professionals. They can do whatever the script calls for. Just like Meryl can play-act like she has a little notion about Maks…

Love all the recent comments... DWTS has revealed a lot about these two, hasn't it?

I agree that Charlie's dances have been a bit lackluster since that amazing contemporary in week 1. Just wait until he draws a waltz or foxtrot--he's gonna work that tailcoat like nobody's biz. I think he will do well with Paso Doble so now I'm mostly concerned that they'll get a poor music selection.

As for Meryl, she got to tango twice, which we know is a stronghold and her foxtrot was beautiful and sweeping! She's really only been marked down on the Latin dances themselves so it will be great what progress she makes with the salsa. I thought their samba was excellent and already great progress from the cha cha in week 1.

The thing I love about D/W (and that their detractors hate) is their technicality in lieu of polish. Call it American or what have you but I love their careless, throwaway style. I heard it best described by one of the Eurosport UK guys--he said about Charlie in particular... he's like a cross between a mad composer and the guy dancing the last dance of the evening with his bowtie off. He's less formal and less polished but shows great flair in his carefree and uplifting style. I apply that to D/W in general esp in comparison to V/M, who are always very neat and polished.

It works for them on the ice when they're going a zillion miles a minute but I don't think it's workomg for them on DWTS. On the floor, you have to finish each movement and cap everything off or it looks untidy. I think that's why Charlie looked so great in the contemporary dance because he took his usual throwaway style directly off the ice and onto the floor but has kind of fizzled out with everything else since then. Others have said Meryl can put on any character or mood but Charlie mostly comes off like the same happy, go-lucky guy no matter what kind of dance he's doing and I agree.

Maybe then... the best of D/W is that Meryl is such a dark and intense foil to Charlie's much more lighter and buoyant style. Without that dark foil, Charlie comes across a bit loosey goosey.

Well, I love them both so I'm definitely splitting hairs here but I think DWTS has shown a new side of them that we probably would not have seen or known had we not seen them with other partners. During the switch week, Tom Bergeron said he thinks the switches said more about the original pairs than anything else and I agree. DWTS has shown me more about D/W's partnership than all the years I've spent following them and dissecting every program and nuance.

That being said, someone else's comment before mine about wanting to see Meryl and Scott Moir skate together, that's hilarious! I have never, ever even considered that but I bet it'd look a bit like Meryl and Maks.

Re: Meryl having done tango twice already...

You know, I'm wondering about that, too. I know one was an Argentine Tango, but aren't they essentially the same thing? Only one allows lift and more separation?

I'm sure there must be some technical differences, but both are certainly the same mood and so forth. Aren't they? I really don't know.

TontoK said:

Re: Meryl having done tango twice already...

You know, I'm wondering about that, too. I know one was an Argentine Tango, but aren't they essentially the same thing? Only one allows lift and more separation?

I'm sure there must be some technical differences, but both are certainly the same mood and so forth. Aren't they? I really don't know.

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I know. I was intrigued by that too... I figured they'd give her a modern or something she hasn't done anything like before....oh well. She tangos well, so it was nice to watch. And I bet Maks was happy - even if he couldn't have the Argentine, at least he got a tango, haha

TontoK said:

Re: Meryl having done tango twice already...

You know, I'm wondering about that, too. I know one was an Argentine Tango, but aren't they essentially the same thing? Only one allows lift and more separation?

I'm sure there must be some technical differences, but both are certainly the same mood and so forth. Aren't they? I really don't know.

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I'm not terribly in teknik when it comes to dance, but my interpretation is that the AT is more staccato and allows lifts, while in Meryl's tango with Maks it seemed more fluid and I think I saw someone refer to their tango as a "smooth, American tango." I could definitely be wrong though.

ETA: Sure wikipedia isn't the greatest source, but for this I think it'll serve well-
Argentine tango: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_tango
Ballroom tango: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballroom_tango

I just saw this article on "People;" and thought that I'd share! It's about Amy and how she has different feet so that she can get more motion in her hips.
http://www.people.com/article/dancing-with-stars-Amy-Purdy-specially-designed-feet-video

snowflakebeautiful said:

I just saw this article on "People;" and thought that I'd share! It's about Amy and how she has different feet so that she can get more motion in her hips.
http://www.people.com/article/dancing-with-stars-Amy-Purdy-specially-designed-feet-video

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That is splendid to read. The engineers who designed these feet are wonderful, and Amy is a marvel for figuring out how she needs to train in order to make the most of her own muscles and the new mechanics. The way she harmonizes her biological body and the "add-ons" is awesome.

Olympia said:

That is splendid to read. The engineers who designed these feet are wonderful, and Amy is a marvel for figuring out how she needs to train in order to make the most of her own muscles and the new mechanics. The way she harmonizes her biological body and the "add-ons" is awesome.

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I agree! I found it very interesting to read.

Amy is amazing.

uncchristine99, I loved reading your thoughts on how DWTS has been so revealing about Meryl and Charlie's partnership and what they both bring to it.

Maybe then... the best of D/W is that Meryl is such a dark and intense foil to Charlie's much more lighter and buoyant style.

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Ha, this reminds me of a translation I recently read of a Russian interview with Marina. The interviewer said Meryl and Charlie looked like something out of a novel, especially Meryl:

- Very non-standard. You kind of look at her like it’s a fairy tale, but you don’t know what the end will be - whether she will remain beautiful, or bite the prince's throat.

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lol, it made me laugh.

Caitie I love Marina's description of them!!

And a team pic - "Team LOCA" - http://instagram.com/p/nJ1Wv6jEV5/

Quote from Charlie re DWTS from article on Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 4/23/14
“It's been an "intense" and "exhausting" saga, White said by phone Saturday, but “we're in the best shape of our lives. We're also having the time of our lives. And we're not taking any of it for granted.”
The only difficult part, White said, is the dance floor.
“The ice just feels like home, especially now after I'm realizing how much I take for granted,” he said. “The dance floor is a totally different kind of monster. You think you know how to walk, but you actually have no idea how to walk like these guys.”


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/other-sports/2014/04/23/

I hope that instead of one of the Macy's Dance features, DWTS shows Davis and White skating one of their programs, even if it's just a full run-through rehearsal. It would be a great way to show what skating can convey.