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Thread: 2014 Worlds: Who is the Dark Horse for the Men's podium?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTnoona View Post
    Denis Ten isn't going to Worlds.
    This is bad. Now it's wide open.

  2. #32
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aschiutza View Post
    He didn't say no to go to the world when he was 5th at the russian championship, isn't it? So bad was he not treated, he still gets to world dispite being 17 last year and only 5 at the euro behind Voronov. Without the backing he got all the season he will hardly got those PCS.Loads of male skaters were dumped from the rusiian federation for much less.

    But I also think that he is the dark horse. He is now poised to show what he can do and frankly i don't see any other new comer being able to do that at the moment.
    Also behind Menshov.

    But yes, I agree he is a dark horse. Hopefully he won't feel as much pressure, and will be able to keep it together.

  3. #33
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    Personal best scores

    Hanyu: 293.25
    Fernandez: 267.11
    Machida: 265.38
    Yan: 246.20
    Kovtun: 240.34
    Liebers: 238.87
    Aaron: 238.36
    Abbott: 237.41
    Brezina: 236.98
    Majorov: 224.86
    Reynolds: 222.23
    Hendrickx: 214.24
    Amodio: 213.39



    I predict

    1. Hanyu
    2. Machida
    3. Yan

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    Max needs about 6 years of ballet and dance movement, divest himself of the herky jerky movements more associated with hockey than figure skating, better music than Carmen for his style of skating and a good choreographer. Jumps alone should not win a medal. I prefer a more well-rounded skater!!

    But having met him I will say that he is a very, very nice young man. I hope he does better than I think he will because he's also a hard worker.
    Quote Originally Posted by KJGL View Post
    He probably doesn't have six years but agree he needs someone like a Sandra Bezic to add the artist to his athlete the way she did with Boitano, at the point in Boitano's career when he was referred to as a jumping machine.

    Also agree he's a class act (could tell just from the way he reacted after not making the Olympic team) and glad to hear he's a hard worker.
    Or you could just get over it and accept the fact that Max is not, and will never be, Boitano, Abbott or Brown; he's got a distinctive funky style that's all his own and very unique and the last thing figure skating needs is a bunch of "cookie-cutter" "artists".

    And Sandra Bezic? If you thought my protests were loud enough when he said he was working with Lori Nichol, you'll want earplugs for any announcement of working with Sandra Bezic.

    Max is a wonderful fun skater, and I wish people would stop being such snobs about his alleged "lack of artistry" and enjoy what's actually there.

  5. #35
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Or you could just get over it and accept the fact that Max is not, and will never be, Boitano, Abbott or Brown; he's got a distinctive funky style that's all his own and very unique and the last thing figure skating needs is a bunch of "cookie-cutter" "artists".

    ... Max is a wonderful fun skater, and I wish people would stop being such snobs about his alleged "lack of artistry" and enjoy what's actually there.
    I am reminded of a recent tweet from Jason Brown, who stated his own goal of being the best Jason he can be.

    Max too always will have my support because he has dedicated himself to being the best Max he can be.

  6. #36
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Or you could just get over it and accept the fact that Max is not, and will never be, Boitano, Abbott or Brown; he's got a distinctive funky style that's all his own and very unique and the last thing figure skating needs is a bunch of "cookie-cutter" "artists".

    And Sandra Bezic? If you thought my protests were loud enough when he said he was working with Lori Nichol, you'll want earplugs for any announcement of working with Sandra Bezic.

    Max is a wonderful fun skater, and I wish people would stop being such snobs about his alleged "lack of artistry" and enjoy what's actually there.
    Agreed. I wouldn't say I'm a fan, but I enjoy watching Max skate - he has power, speed, energy and fun out there. He's weaknesses should (and do) reflect rightuflly in his PCS, but if he really delivers, he deserves high TES. If he skates clean, he could be on the podium at this WC, and I'd rather see that than the 'artists' and 'more well-rounded skaters' medaling with mediocre skates. I liked his programs last season more, but that's what you get when everyone has to be pressed into the same expectations... him and Jason will make a really exciting team in the next years

    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA
    I don't think Kovtun has a good chance. He will face some backlash from Sochi Olymputin.
    I don't think so. It wouldn't be fair and he wasn't even in Sochi. I'd lie if I said I liked his skating, but he might feel like he wants to proof his worth, he had time to prepare for this because he wasn't at the Olys, and the rest of the men's field is pretty deflated. Kovtun making it on the podium wouldn't suprise me all that much, even if it's not likely.
    I'm still rooting for Han Yan though. It would set him up great for the next quad (and I'd love for the next quad to be the Hanyu-Han-Brown era! )

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Or you could just get over it and accept the fact that Max is not, and will never be, Boitano, Abbott or Brown; he's got a distinctive funky style that's all his own and very unique and the last thing figure skating needs is a bunch of "cookie-cutter" "artists".

    And Sandra Bezic? If you thought my protests were loud enough when he said he was working with Lori Nichol, you'll want earplugs for any announcement of working with Sandra Bezic.

    Max is a wonderful fun skater, and I wish people would stop being such snobs about his alleged "lack of artistry" and enjoy what's actually there.
    That's very high minded and nothing wrong with that. But it's not just "people being snobs" about his "alleged 'lack of artistry'". It's judges.

    Clearly the component scores they give him are at odds with your opinion. They're not seeing his "distinctive funky style."

    I'd be very happy to enjoy his style, too...in his show skating. But we're not talking about show skating. We're talking about competitive skating and what a skater needs to do to succeed in competitive skating.

    I had no idea that Max had been working with Lori Nichol but it seems pretty obvious that this is something he's trying to address. If that p*sses you off, don't tell me I'll need earplugs, yell at him. Seems pretty misdirected to take out your frustrations on posters on a message board who weren't even attacking him, but rather talking about a part of his skating that he himself thinks its important to improve.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    I am reminded of a recent tweet from Jason Brown, who stated his own goal of being the best Jason he can be.

    Max too always will have my support because he has dedicated himself to being the best Max he can be.
    And if Jason never gets the quad I have no doubt you'll continue to support him, but your interest in competitive skating will move along to a skater who has the goods to compete.

    I'm honestly mystified as to why a posting exchange about what a skater can do to improve his competitive chances would be so offensive? You and I both like Max and are pulling for him at Worlds, maybe you can explain it to me?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post


    I don't think so. It wouldn't be fair and he wasn't even in Sochi. I'd lie if I said I liked his skating, but he might feel like he wants to proof his worth, he had time to prepare for this because he wasn't at the Olys, and the rest of the men's field is pretty deflated. Kovtun making it on the podium wouldn't suprise me all that much, even if it's not likely.
    I'm still rooting for Han Yan though. It would set him up great for the next quad (and I'd love for the next quad to be the Hanyu-Han-Brown era! )
    I wouldn't like it at all. Hanyu needs a worthy challenger and I don't see Han or Brown being that skater. Hopefully Ten will stay and be a worthy competitor. Kovtun has potential too.

  10. #40
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Working on a data analysis of scores....which I hope to use to answer the OP.

    HAHA IM SUCH A NERD.

  11. #41
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    I wouldn't like it at all. Hanyu needs a worthy challenger and I don't see Han or Brown being that skater. Hopefully Ten will stay and be a worthy competitor. Kovtun has potential too.
    I'd take Han over Ten. Han has better basic skating, his 4T and 3A have better quality. You can argue with his programs and his not-up-to-snuff interpretation abilities (for now), but I don't find Ten to be all that better in those regards. He's a fine skater, but his programs are empty and he tends to look very focused on the technical part of his performances. If Han manages to get it together and get more consistent, I think he'll leave Ten behind him in the coming years.
    Don't know about Kovtun. He has difficult jumps and seems very determined to improve in every other aspect of his skating, but I can't see him challenging Hanyu. His jumping technique looks like it will hold him back, IMO. That doesn't mean you have to like me idea of the perfect next quad though

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan
    Dont be surprised to see much lower than expected scores for Stolbova & Klimov (though they still might win if V&T arent there, S&S bomb, and nobody else skates that well), Lipnitskaya, Kovtun, and almost all the Russians skaters minus I&K who I suspect even the ISU want to see as the team to beat this quad.
    I really hope this doesn't happen. Even moreso for I/K, I know they're great skaters, but P/B should have a fair rematch. It would be so amazing to see them win a world title bofre they retire.
    The main fous of the whole scandal was so much on the ladies event, I felt the other disciplines are being overlooked. So while I agree Lipnitskaya might get some back lash, I'd say Kovtun should be relatively save (and probably, if they'd compete, V/T would still get sky-high marks even for things they don't deserve too).

  12. #42
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    What does lower scores even mean? 5's or 6's in pcs? No goe on jumps?

  13. #43
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJGL View Post
    And if Jason never gets the quad I have no doubt you'll continue to support him, but your interest in competitive skating will move along to a skater who has the goods to compete.

    I'm honestly mystified as to why a posting exchange about what a skater can do to improve his competitive chances would be so offensive? You and I both like Max and are pulling for him at Worlds, maybe you can explain it to me?
    Huh??? I never said that anything in this thread was offensive. I am honestly mystified as to the basis for your comment to me.

  14. #44
    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volk View Post
    Personal best scores

    Hanyu: 293.25
    Fernandez: 267.11
    Machida: 265.38
    Yan: 246.20
    Kovtun: 240.34
    Liebers: 238.87
    Aaron: 238.36
    Abbott: 237.41
    Brezina: 236.98
    Majorov: 224.86
    Reynolds: 222.23
    Hendrickx: 214.24
    Amodio: 213.39
    Per the posts from Mrs. P in the other thread, these scores are SEASON's bests, not PBs.

    And her post from Mar 4 has an addition:
    Kozuka: 236.38 (from 2014 4CC)
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...l=1#post880441

    http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/...14/sbtsmto.htm

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJGL View Post
    That's very high minded and nothing wrong with that. But it's not just "people being snobs" about his "alleged 'lack of artistry'". It's judges.

    Clearly the component scores they give him are at odds with your opinion. They're not seeing his "distinctive funky style."

    I'd be very happy to enjoy his style, too...in his show skating. But we're not talking about show skating. We're talking about competitive skating and what a skater needs to do to succeed in competitive skating.

    I had no idea that Max had been working with Lori Nichol but it seems pretty obvious that this is something he's trying to address. If that p*sses you off, don't tell me I'll need earplugs, yell at him. Seems pretty misdirected to take out your frustrations on posters on a message board who weren't even attacking him, but rather talking about a part of his skating that he himself thinks its important to improve.
    Thank you! Well stated. I don't know how many years Max has been skating but it's sad that someone hasn't addressed his "lack of artistry" sooner. He definitely has the jumps but in this day and age that just isn't enough. I don't enjoy his style of skating. But I certainly don't wish him ill will. I generally agree with you Karne in many of your posts but to suggest that developing more artistry is going to create a bunch of "cookie cutter" artists is kind of non-sensical. There is a judging system - like it or not. It rewards specifics in skating. Max is not getting rewarded for a large piece of that pie because he doesn't perform in a manner the judges are rewarding!!! I about fell out of my chair when I heard he was skating to Carmen this year! In what universe did that make sense? That's like expecting Elvis Stojko (who he reminds me of) to skate to Swan Lake! It just doesn't synch. Why not find a piece of music where his style would be supported rather than displaying his weaknesses? But you can't fault Max for this entirely. I do hope that his coach and team (whomever they may be...Lori Nichol?) put some real thought into choosing his music and choreographing his programs for next year.

    And yes, he is a class act! It must have been hard to sit back stage and watch your 2014 Olympic dream go down the drain. Hopefully it has made him stronger and more determined.

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