Johnny Weir's court day for biting his husband Voronov | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Johnny Weir's court day for biting his husband Voronov

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
So yeah. It's a shame--he was very talented, but emotionally done with ice-skating and the USFS long before he reached his peak, and so he never capitalized on the talent we all saw in him :(. The Jason Brown comparison is super apt--Jason has far and away better skating skills, is just as artistic, but Jason really seems to want this a heck of a lot more than Johnny ever did.

It also helps that Jason has a coach that knows how to get every point out of COP. Galina just was not good at doing that for Johnny.

Jason also always had a long-term view regarding his career so was and is not easily discouraged by setbacks along the way.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Let's just say that Voronov has had a documented violent history with former partners. He is a law school graduate so he knows well how to manipulate the law to his own advantage.

Johnny may be flamboyant, but he has always shown himself to be a kind and caring person. He tends to want to keep his private life private, so he wants to reveal his sad news in his own way.

IMO, Johnny was taken advantage of by a manipulative person who will probably now seek big $$ in a divorce settlement.

Not to speculate on a particular person or pair of people, but it seems to me that gay marriage will be a lot like straight marriage, in that some people will rush into a marriage without thinking it through and will rush out almost as quickly. Human nature isn't that different across the spectrum. Remember the famous Britney Spears 55-hour marriage? I can see some gay couple with similar airheaded views of the institution marrying because it's the thing to do this year and then realizing that entering into marriage isn't like choosing another pair of au courant boots. The phrase "falling in love with love" enters the mind, and also the even older one of "marry in haste and repent at leisure."
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
May I please point out that the only OFFICIAL RECORDS that Victor has is a DUI. No battery, no domestic violence.

Frankly it sickens me that the first thing Weir's fans do when this news comes out is immediately try to paint Victor as some kind of evil villain, while stridently claiming no-one can hate on Johnny because there's no proof and no conviction.

(No, I can't call him Voronov, because my brain immediately leaps to Sergei, and that's just weird.)

Domestic violence is not a laughing matter no matter who you are.
 

usethis2

Medalist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
The dude called the police because Johnny bit him? Am I reading it right?

P.S. He looks like a cartoon character. :biggrin:
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
I agree that Johnny never actualized his potential, but I think it is totally unrelated to his ~celebrity~ or flamboyance. It wasn't really a cause-and-effect matter, I think. Johnny started at a huge disadvantage, starting so late, and I think Priscilla Hill never really pushed him to evolve technically. He coasted by on his artistic skills for a really long time, and people loved watching him skate because even though he was incredibly unpredictable at times, he was enthralling to watch when he was on his game. As he got older, he was less and less consistent, and he couldn't keep up with the skills of the skaters who were evolving and pushing past him. The USFS treated him terribly (culminating in that absolutely humiliating "Johnny speaks French and likes fashion" intro at the 2010 Olympics) and so he tried to be increasingly bullish in the media to combat all of that--to take ownership of his voice. He said before--the more the media called him flamboyant because he liked wearing feathery one-pieces when he skated (he liked to feel beautiful and artistic) the angrier he got, and the more "flamboyant" he wanted to appear.

So yeah. It's a shame--he was very talented, but emotionally done with ice-skating and the USFS long before he reached his peak, and so he never capitalized on the talent we all saw in him :(. The Jason Brown comparison is super apt--Jason has far and away better skating skills, is just as artistic, but Jason really seems to want this a heck of a lot more than Johnny ever did.

Thanks dear :)

To think of it, the only parallel Johnny and Jason have is their enormous talent. Jason is very close to realizing to his potential and he did it in his first senior debut. Kori Ade is a brilliant young coach who really knows how to approach skating and to look at it philosophically and strategically. If Jason can maintain this current standard and own the quad, he will be battling directly with Yuz in the next few years. Johnny was lost for a long time. Even he said his coach (Hill?) gave up on him at one point. He became more and more inconsistent, had meltdowns, and perhaps even problems with mental discipline. When Johnny was younger, Johnny had so much promise that Frank Carroll thought he was the most talented skater he had ever seen. Not only did Johnny never realize his potential, I still think he was deeply distracted by the cult of fame and celebrity surrounding him. It was louder and louder, not better and better. Johnny didn't have Kori Ade at his side. Instead, he had Galina who was angry at him for not going to Worlds 2010, as he was devastated for not having been rewarded in Vancouver. Galina, as Mrs P said, didn't know how to utilize COP. His programs were becoming more and more sparse. Under Kori's guidance, Jason had a phenomenal senior debut and widespread love. Actually, I can't think of a skater who is more loved at this moment. Johnny never had the best coach, guidance, and widespread support from the media and especially USFSA.

Anyway, I did like Johnny as a person when I saw his show. As a person, he is far less obnoxious than his flamboyant persona. I don't really think the flamboyance is who he really is; just a persona he thought as convenient to express his angst perhaps.

I'm disappointed to hear Voronov has a bad history.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
The biggest difference between Jason and Johnny is that Jason has a work ethic. Johnny wouldn't know what a work ethic was.

I had to have a little chuckle though at the poster upthread who painted the dramatic picture of poor sweet Johnny married to manipulative Victor...sorry, but the last time I checked, faking injury/illness on more than one occasion, painting yourself as a victim of the evil federation, and begging your adoring fans for training money (while you just finished bragging about the latest Birkin bag you bought) are all actions that are pretty manipulative to me.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
The biggest difference between Jason and Johnny is that Jason has a work ethic. Johnny wouldn't know what a work ethic was.

I had to have a little chuckle though at the poster upthread who painted the dramatic picture of poor sweet Johnny married to manipulative Victor...sorry, but the last time I checked, faking injury/illness on more than one occasion, painting yourself as a victim of the evil federation, and begging your adoring fans for training money (while you just finished bragging about the latest Birkin bag you bought) are all actions that are pretty manipulative to me.

Interesting... in any case... he's a side note now. No one has taken him and his skating seriously for a long time. I also remember posts where he bought a $1mil condo in NYC or that some skating show refused to re-hire him?
 

wingsofliberty

Spectator
Joined
Jan 13, 2014
The biggest difference between Jason and Johnny is that Jason has a work ethic. Johnny wouldn't know what a work ethic was.

I kind of disagree, actually, but I think the biggest difference (aside from the coaching issue) is the field. Johnny was mega-talented and coasted by because no one challenged him for ages. He was told he was a genius and he acted like one. He reminds me of brilliant kids who coast by in grade school and find themselves in university with no idea how to study and no understanding of why they don't succeed and why no one is praising their abilities any longer. Those kids turn out to be very angry, often, and very unsure of themselves until they pull themselves together and realize that you can't just be smart--you have to work and improve yourself in order to get anywhere. Genius isn't a lifelong guarantee of success. It's a perk when you're young, but it can be a crutch when you get older. Johnny didn't take his training into his own hands. He didn't work at it. He didn't want to be better, stronger, faster, surer. He just wanted to win and be recognized as that kid who landed an axel after two hours of training. And that's tremendously different.

The field these days wouldn't reward a 2003-2006 Johnny. Not even the junior field. Men are getting quads younger and younger, and COP has changed the way programs are structured by providing a serious benchmark to improvement--the more technique you can learn and execute, the more you will be rewarded. You can't coast anymore. You have to show serious improvement year after year. If you don't, someone else will. And you will be very quickly overtaken. Jason has been competing in the era of Patrick Chans and Yuzuru Hanyus. The field is overrun by young wunderkinds. His 2014 Nationals performance isn't enough, and he knows that. Ade knows that too. They wouldn't even have been enough had he won (which, of course, he didn't). But Johnny, I think, didn't realize that it frankly was not enough, and no one sat him down and told him. And so the 2003-2006 Johnny became the 2006-2010 Johnny, culminating in 6th at Vancouver and basically ending his career. I think Jason will be very different, and I think it's because he can see what a challenge the next quad will pose, and he can see, looking back, how the next crop of soon-to-be-seniors will shake it all up.

Anyway! Sorry to derail this thread! And thanks for the warm welcome--these are my first posts on Goldenskate :)
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Johnny announced the marriage is over via Twitter 13 minutes ago.

It is with great sadness that I announce that my husband and I are no longer together. My heart hurts, and I wish him well.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
May I please point out that the only OFFICIAL RECORDS that Victor has is a DUI. No battery, no domestic violence.

Frankly it sickens me that the first thing Weir's fans do when this news comes out is immediately try to paint Victor as some kind of evil villain, while stridently claiming no-one can hate on Johnny because there's no proof and no conviction.

(No, I can't call him Voronov, because my brain immediately leaps to Sergei, and that's just weird.)

Domestic violence is not a laughing matter no matter who you are.

The records Matilda linked were for battery, property damage, false imprisonment and obstructing 911 calls. That's a pretty bad list that indicates some problematic behavior.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I kind of disagree, actually, but I think the biggest difference (aside from the coaching issue) is the field. Johnny was mega-talented and coasted by because no one challenged him for ages. He was told he was a genius and he acted like one. He reminds me of brilliant kids who coast by in grade school and find themselves in university with no idea how to study and no understanding of why they don't succeed and why no one is praising their abilities any longer. Those kids turn out to be very angry, often, and very unsure of themselves until they pull themselves together and realize that you can't just be smart--you have to work and improve yourself in order to get anywhere. Genius isn't a lifelong guarantee of success. It's a perk when you're young, but it can be a crutch when you get older. Johnny didn't take his training into his own hands. He didn't work at it. He didn't want to be better, stronger, faster, surer. He just wanted to win and be recognized as that kid who landed an axel after two hours of training. And that's tremendously different.

The field these days wouldn't reward a 2003-2006 Johnny. Not even the junior field. Men are getting quads younger and younger, and COP has changed the way programs are structured by providing a serious benchmark to improvement--the more technique you can learn and execute, the more you will be rewarded. You can't coast anymore. You have to show serious improvement year after year. If you don't, someone else will. And you will be very quickly overtaken. Jason has been competing in the era of Patrick Chans and Yuzuru Hanyus. The field is overrun by young wunderkinds. His 2014 Nationals performance isn't enough, and he knows that. Ade knows that too. They wouldn't even have been enough had he won (which, of course, he didn't). But Johnny, I think, didn't realize that it frankly was not enough, and no one sat him down and told him. And so the 2003-2006 Johnny became the 2006-2010 Johnny, culminating in 6th at Vancouver and basically ending his career. I think Jason will be very different, and I think it's because he can see what a challenge the next quad will pose, and he can see, looking back, how the next crop of soon-to-be-seniors will shake it all up.

Anyway! Sorry to derail this thread! And thanks for the warm welcome--these are my first posts on Goldenskate :)

No, I'd rather talk about this than hear about domestic violence....and welcome to Golden Skate. You got the posting long part down.....so keep posting. :)

Anyway, that's a really good point about Jason and his relative competition. Even though Jason was quite gifted artistically, he wasn't the only star in U.S. Figure Skating. Joshua Farris, for quite some time, had all the attention, namely because he had the more difficult content. When they were in Novice, Joshua had the 3-3 combination while Jason was URing on the triple loop. In juniors, Joshua was starting on the the 3A while Jason took 3.5 years to learn his.

Jason has said many times the level of competition has forced him to find other ways to be competitive be it in his spins, his footwork or his flexibility. (And in fact, Joshua was the more flexible of the two when they were younger, which drove Jason to work on his flexibility with fervor and now Jason's the flexible one).

And yes as a junior he had plenty of competition with Yan Han, Maxim Kovtun, even Boyang Jin beat him at the beginning of the 2011-2012 season.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Argh... drama indeed. When Johnny fell hard on a jump, he just quit his program and withdrew to the disapproval of Uncle Dick who just said you simply get up and continue.

Too bad about the marriage.... argh... just frustrating to see.

Mrs P, I feel kind of bad for Joshua. He was the one who pushed Jason to improve the most and they're also good friends. Joshua didn't do so well at Nationals and has fallen off the radar with the exception of some hardcore fans who follow the junior circuit. Joshua is a very refined, artistic skater.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The field these days wouldn't reward a 2003-2006 Johnny.

Eh, it's not about the field so much as it is the scoring system and the judging.

Johnny had movement and musical interpretation that is better than anyone these days. He could do the best Triple Axels in the world. He could do difficult spin positions brilliantly. He had strong blade stroking. He even had some difficult jump entrances.

The sport at the moment, though, is just demanding way too much technical content. There's not enough room to actually skate and perform.
 

pointyourtoe

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
What a shock that he would make such a tacky comment about Ellen/Oprah, NOT (of course he deleted it after)..

This is the same person who went on shopping sprees while begging his fans for "training money". You bet he will milk this for all that he can get.

Edit: I'm reading the deluded comments from his fans in this thread and my mouth is agape. From the beginning Victor's past seemed suspicious, but that doesn't mean Johnny didn't bite or attack him.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
What a shock that he would make such a tacky comment about Ellen/Oprah, NOT (of course he deleted it after)..

This is the same person who went on shopping sprees while begging his fans for "training money". You bet he will milk this for all that he can get.

Edit: I'm reading the deluded comments from his fans in this thread and my mouth is agape. From the beginning Victor's past seemed suspicious, but that doesn't mean Johnny didn't bite or attack him.

It doesn't. But making Victor the wronged angel is no better than the opposite.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Eh, it's not about the field so much as it is the scoring system and the judging.

Johnny had movement and musical interpretation that is better than anyone these days. He could do the best Triple Axels in the world. He could do difficult spin positions brilliantly. He had strong blade stroking. He even had some difficult jump entrances.

The sport at the moment, though, is just demanding way too much technical content. There's not enough room to actually skate and perform.

I mentioned this some time ago but I think it bears repeating. I saw Johnny last year in Dreams on Ice in Oakland and he was throwing triple axels like they were nothing! Everyone of them was landed cleanly with beautiful positions. I think it's pretty inane to say someone who was good under the 6.0 judging wouldn't bring their game up under the new system. And Johnny did bring his game up - unfortunately, I think his head got in the way!! I think Johnny is one of the most talented and most graceful men to ever take the ice. I think his problem was in leaving Priscilla Hill. Once he left her he started into the Russian stuff (for lack of a better term) skated to sometimes very obscure music, did weird things with his hair and wore outrageous costumes.....and Tarasova did nothing to make him more ice-friendly. I always wanted to see him in just all black with no bling or very little bling and skating to music that would help the audience connect to the program.

I also remember watching a practice session in Portland before the Nats there. He was just skating around the rink lifting his feet, putting them down, hands on hips, etc. All of a sudden he did a 3-turn and literally everyone stopped to watch him. The smoothness, the grace, etc. was so pronounced and he was only skating backwards!!!

I haven't read this whole entire thread, but are he and Voronov split up? That must have been some kind of a fight if biting was involved.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Eh, it's not about the field so much as it is the scoring system and the judging.

Johnny had movement and musical interpretation that is better than anyone these days. He could do the best Triple Axels in the world. He could do difficult spin positions brilliantly. He had strong blade stroking. He even had some difficult jump entrances.

The sport at the moment, though, is just demanding way too much technical content. There's not enough room to actually skate and perform.

I mentioned this some time ago but I think it bears repeating. I saw Johnny last year in Dreams on Ice in Oakland and he was throwing triple axels like they were nothing! Everyone of them was landed cleanly with beautiful positions. I think it's pretty inane to say someone who was good under the 6.0 judging wouldn't bring their game up under the new system. And Johnny did bring his game up - unfortunately, I think his head got in the way!! I think Johnny is one of the most talented and most graceful men to ever take the ice. I think his problem was in leaving Priscilla Hill. Once he left her he started into the Russian stuff (for lack of a better term) skated to sometimes very obscure music, did weird things with his hair and wore outrageous costumes.....and Tarasova did nothing to make him more ice-friendly. I always wanted to see him in just all black with no bling or very little bling and skating to music that would help the audience connect to the program.

I also remember watching a practice session in Portland before the Nats there. He was just skating around the rink lifting his feet, putting them down, hands on hips, etc. All of a sudden he did a 3-turn and literally everyone stopped to watch him. The smoothness, the grace, etc. was so pronounced and he was only skating backwards!!!

I haven't read this whole entire thread, but are he and Voronov split up? That must have been some kind of a fight if biting was involved. But I do know this - until you're actually one of of the parties in a marraige going bad you shouldn't judge either of them. I would bet they're both at fault.
 

Dutchie

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
It's always sad to see a couple break up. I hope for the best for both parties..

I think it's both interesting and fair to compare Johnny and Jason. Johnny's artistry was light years ahead of the competition and would still challenge the youngsters under the COP today. That said, Jason has a charisma that better compares to Ryan Bradley. Johnny's programs were emotional and breathtaking. Whereas Jason's are captivating and enticing. It is unfortunate that Johnny never found the right team to give him the best chance at being competitive at the top, but like others have said, he could have done more on his part to make that happen. It's too bad we will never really know what could have been. With Jason it's a different story. He is young and has his entire career ahead of him with the right coaching team to give him the chances Johnny never really had. The difference between the two is that Johnny was sort of the red-headed step child and Jason is the prince (in the eyes of the USFSA).
 
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