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Thread: Coupe du Printemps, Luxembourg, March 14-16

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    Coupe du Printemps, Luxembourg, March 14-16

    Official site
    http://www.coupeduprintemps.lu/

    Schedule

    14/03/2014
    10:00-13:35 Advanced Novice Girls SP
    13:35-14:15 Advanced Novice Boys SP
    14:15-18:15 Junior Ladies SP
    18:15-20:15 Junior Men SP

    15/03/2014
    9:00-11:45 Senior Ladies SP
    11:45-13:10 Senior Men SP
    13:10-14:30 Novice A Girls FS
    14:35-18:55 Junior Ladies FS
    18:55-21:15 Junior Men FS

    16/03/2014
    8:30-8:55 Advanced Novice Boys FS
    8:55-13:00 Advanced Novice Girls FS
    13:00-14:40 Senior Men FS
    14:40-17:35 Senior Ladies FS

    Starting orders
    http://www.coupeduprintemps.lu/wp-co...3/draw2014.pdf

    The attention point is Marin Honda of Advanced Novice Girls. Her first competition since junior nationals.

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    I've never quite understood why the USA doesn't send skaters to assignments like these. There are so many little competitions during the second half of the season where they could send their skaters. Only the top 5 at Nationals tend to get anything, and yet there are so many skaters at Nationals deserving of assignments

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    They have a limited budget. What doesn't make any sense is why they don't allow skaters to freely enter international competitions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96skiluvr View Post
    I've never quite understood why the USA doesn't send skaters to assignments like these. There are so many little competitions during the second half of the season where they could send their skaters. Only the top 5 at Nationals tend to get anything, and yet there are so many skaters at Nationals deserving of assignments
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    They have a limited budget. What doesn't make any sense is why they don't allow skaters to freely enter international competitions.
    Could the answer be that USFS is attempting do what it can within its power to keep the playing field as level as possible?

    Meaning that it doesn't want American skaters whose families have more money of their own to be able to essentially buy competitive experience that others cannot afford?

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Could the answer be that USFS is attempting do what it can within its power to keep the playing field as level as possible?

    Meaning that it doesn't want American skaters whose families have more money of their own to be able to essentially buy competitive experience that others cannot afford?
    That's what USFS would probably like all of us to think but that argument just doesn't hold water, IMO. The playing field is nowhere near even to begin with. If you don't have a lot of money, you can't really become a competitive skater in the US given how much figure skating coaches charge as well as the cost of ice time and equipment. There's pretty much no government support and group classes aren't generally seen as a viable option. Those who have more money have access to better skating coaches and choreographers and can afford to work with personal trainers, dieticians, ballet teachers, mimes and acrobats. They can enter a lot of club competitions to get more feedback from the judges and technical panels.

    I think that USFS just wants to be in control and doesn't want the 'wrong' skaters to produce good results and upset 'the pecking order.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    That's what USFS would probably like all of us to think but that argument just doesn't hold water, IMO. The playing field is nowhere near even to begin with. If you don't have a lot of money, you can't really become a competitive skater in the US given how much figure skating coaches charge as well as the cost of ice time and equipment. There's pretty much no government support and group classes aren't generally seen as a viable option. Those who have more money have access to better skating coaches and choreographers and can afford to work with personal trainers, dieticians, ballet teachers, mimes and acrobats. They can enter a lot of club competitions to get more feedback from the judges and technical panels.

    I think that USFS just wants to be in control and doesn't want the 'wrong' skaters to produce good results and upset 'the pecking order.'
    "The playing field is nowhere near even to begin with." Agree. That's why my post above said, "Within its power."

    And ... depends on what you mean by, "... a lot of money." Seems quite apparent that some elite American skaters (and/or their families) have more money than others.

    I'm reminded of a fluff piece that I saw about Team USA snowboarder Justin Reiter, a Sochi Olympian. He lived out of his car for months in order to afford his training.
    I understand that different sports have different sets of costs. But I would like to believe that when there's a will, there's a way.
    And if USFS is trying to do something -- again, something within its power -- to give less affluent skaters a fair shake regarding all-important international experience and exposure, I support its attempt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    And if USFS is trying to do something -- again, something within its power -- to give less affluent skaters a fair shake regarding all-important international experience and exposure, I support its attempt.
    Given how few skaters they have entered to their own event, where it would have cost them a fraction of the usual cost, I highly doubt that is their primary motivation.

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    I think the JSF is too generous in giving out international assignments. Mura and Imai didn't need to be at Challenge Cup in order to keep their rankings. Hino is given 2 assignments (Coupe du Printemps and Triglav Trophy) but his current WS is too low and even winning both won't give him a GP spot. He was the 12th at nationals. I've always thought that Nagakubo's students are given too much favors in Japan. The other obvious examples are Hongo and Matsuda. Their domestic scores are extremely generous compared to international standards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Given how few skaters they have entered to their own event, where it would have cost them a fraction of the usual cost, I highly doubt that is their primary motivation.
    Sorry, I don't know to which event are you referring.

    If(??) you are talking about the U.S. Senior B in Salt Lake City:

    For that competition, USFS was limited to four entries per discipline in 2013. And it used them to the fullest.
    "As the host organizer, U.S. Figure Skating reserves the right to enter a maximum of four (4) entries in each discipline."
    http://isuprod.blob.core.windows.net...nouncement.pdf (see page 4)
    http://usfigureskating.org/Athletes.asp?id=216

    ETA:
    For that competition, USFS was limited to three entries per discipline in 2012, the inaugural year of the event. And USFS used them to the fullest, with the exception of only two Ladies entered. (Somehow it had four Men entered.)
    "As the host organizer, U.S. Figure Skating reserves the right to enter a maximum of three (3) entries in each discipline."
    http://isuprod.blob.core.windows.net...nouncement.pdf (see page 4)
    http://usfigureskating.org/Shell.asp?sid=49282

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    Looking forward to seeing how all the Japanese skaters do here! Especially Marin, Mariko and Sota. Mariko had some pretty good results nationally over the season so I'm interested in seeing how she performs.

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    SP Starting order (OCR version)

    Senior Men
    1 Charles PARRY-EVANS GBR
    2 Valtter VIRTANEN FIN
    3 Gaylord LAVOISIER FRA
    4 Franz STREUBEL GER
    5 Mario Rafael IONIAN AUT
    6 Florian LEJEUNE FRA
    7 Daisuke MURAKAMI JPN
    8 Ryuju HINO JPN
    9 Charles TETAR FRA

    Senior Ladies
    1 Sarah HECKEN GER
    2 Myriam LEUENBERGER AUT
    3 Camilla GJERSEM NOR
    4 Kaat VAN DAELE BEL
    5 Dasa GRM SLO
    6 Isabelle PIEMAN BEL
    7 Alexandra KUNOVA SVK
    8 Helery HALVIN EST
    9 Fleur MAXWELL LUX
    10 Johanna WICK SWE
    11 Carol BRESSANUTTI ITA
    12 Nika CERIC SLO
    13 Mariko KIHARA JPN
    14 Victoria HUBLER AUT
    15 Frederika LASOM SWE
    16 Anine RABE NOR
    17 Eveline BRUNNER SUI

    Junior Men
    1 Alessandro FADINI ITA
    2 Sota YAMAMOTO JPN
    3 Charlton DOHERTY AUS
    4 Timofei NOVAIKIN FRA
    5 Anton KEMPF GER
    6 Nurullah SAHAKA SUI
    7 Panagiotis POLIZOAKIS GER
    8 Tim HUBER SUI
    9 Christopher HUTTEL GER
    10 Adrien TESSON FRA
    11 Michel TSIBA NED
    12 Josh BROWN GBR
    13 Taichi HONDA JPN
    14 Alberto VANZ ITA
    15 Mania DALLA TORRE ITA
    16 Marco BOZZUTO ITA

    Junior Ladies
    1 Minami HANASHIRO GER
    2 Martina MANZO ITA
    3 Vilma KOSONEN FIN
    4 Hao Qing Charlotte CHUI HKG
    5 Yura MATSUDA JPN
    6 Loena HENDRICKX BEL
    7 Camilla CAPPELLIN ITA
    8 Aiza IMAMBEK KAZ
    9 Daisy VREENEGOOR NED
    10 Renee HAMBLY AUS
    11 Shaline RUEGGER SUI
    12 Kristina DUBROVSKAYA CYP
    13 Saara ASTOLA FIN
    14 Lena SLAGTER NED
    15 Alexia POLACEK FRA
    16 Ceciliane Mei Ling HARTMANN SIN
    17 Chloe VILLEDEY LUX
    18 Kloe ROZGHONYI GBR
    19 Arina KLINOVITSKAYA FIN
    20 Emma NIEMI FIN
    21 Niki WORIES NED
    22 Anna HALLGREN SWE
    23 Karoline PANES NOR
    24 Lola ESBRAT FRA
    25 Tina HELLEKEN GER
    26 Jennifer SCHMIDT GER
    27 Nelma HEDE FIN
    28 Katie PASFIELD AUS
    29 Mara WAGNER LUX
    30 Mariana TORRESANI ITA

    Ad Novice Girls
    1 Layla Constance LABERNY GER
    2 Sarah PAPA POL
    3 Kyarha VAN TIEL NED
    4 Valentina INDELICATO ITA
    5 Marianne STALEN NOR
    6 Karen KRAHE GER
    7 Juulia SYRJANEN FIN
    8 Greta LUPATELLI ITA
    9 Naomi VERDEYEN BEL
    10 Minori YUGE GER
    11 Ine DOOMS BEL
    12 Rebecca GILLESPIE GBR
    13 Kiia MANNINEN FIN
    14 Malin SCHADLICH GER
    15 Maria KLAR GER
    16 Charlotte VANDERSARREN BEL
    17 Kaisla ILJIN FIN
    18 Smilla SZALKAI SWE
    19 Yuna AOKI JPN
    20 Jiidou VAN VLIET NED
    21 Aneeta LINGAM MAS
    22 Chiara PAGANIN ITA
    23 Melyna DECOBERT FRA
    24 Marin HONDA JPN
    25 Joanne JAULIMO FIN
    26 Karoliina KUOKKANEN FIN
    27 Sara BOSCHIROLI ITA
    28 Leann KRAWETZKE GER
    29 Alexia WALKER-MCGRATH GBR

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    I'm really looking forward to see Daisuke Murakami skating again. I like his style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    If(??) you are talking about the U.S. Senior B in Salt Lake City:
    Yes, I was talking about the only international competition (international competition, not 'Senior B') that USFS has organised. I incorrectly remembered them using less than 4 entries per discipline and I was wrong on that. Still, they could have theoretically chosen to enter more skaters if they wanted to.

    I don't see how holding back some skaters from getting more competitive experience is helping those who couldn't otherwise afford it. It's simply taking opportunities away from some whilst not doing anything for the others. In a sport that's for the wealthy people anyway, why suddenly put this wall at that point? When there's pretty much zero government support for the sport? It's like putting a plaster over a severed limb. Considering the huge amount of money that skating families are ploughing into the sport, they might as well get some international competition results out it. Now if more wealthy skaters were be taxed by USFS and that money would be used to support the less wealthy skaters, that would be levelling the playing field. But of course such scenario is completely unrealistic (especially in the US out of all places).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Yes, I was talking about the only international competition (international competition, not 'Senior B') that USFS has organised. I incorrectly remembered them using less than 4 entries per discipline and I was wrong on that. Still, they could have theoretically chosen to enter more skaters if they wanted to.

    I don't see how holding back some skaters from getting more competitive experience is helping those who couldn't otherwise afford it. It's simply taking opportunities away from some whilst not doing anything for the others. In a sport that's for the wealthy people anyway, why suddenly put this wall at that point? When there's pretty much zero government support for the sport? It's like putting a plaster over a severed limb. Considering the huge amount of money that skating families are ploughing into the sport, they might as well get some international competition results out it. Now if more wealthy skaters were be taxed by USFS and that money would be used to support the less wealthy skaters, that would be levelling the playing field. But of course such scenario is completely unrealistic (especially in the US out of all places).
    My last post on this subject. I'll agree to disagree with you so as not to continue hijacking the thread.

    As I said before, USFS has my support if it does not want to sit back complacently and let skating in the U.S. be "a sport that's for the wealthy people anyway."

    The hypothetical scenario that I have in mind:
    Skaters A and B both are American and have had equally promising results. Suppose that USFS does not act as a gatekeeper for international competitions -- and that Skater A can afford to pay out of pocket to gain international experience and exposure, but Skater B cannot. Seems obvious to me that it potentially would be more difficult for the overall progress of B's skating to keep up with A's ... and the difference could show up at Nationals, when the two skaters are competing head to head for slots at ISU Championships, which in turn would affect additional progress, etc., etc.

    (Even further off topic: I was referring to the U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, which is a mouthful. Don't understand the problem with my shorthand reference to it as the U.S. Senior B. Similarly, I would refer to Skate Down Under as the Australian Senior B [except that Skate Down Under is much shorter name than U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, LOL]. YMMV.

    BTW, as long as we're being picky: you meant to say "fewer" than 4 entries per discipline. Not "less." )

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    Does anyone have a link to the official results from this competition?

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