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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

    For those who do not know before we begin, here are the requirements for achieving a Level 4 step sequence in singles skating:

    1.) 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps, all executed at least once in both directions.
    2.) Rotations in both directions with full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
    3.) Use of upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
    4.) Two different combinations of 3 difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.

    Here is every skate movement that Sotnikova made in the step sequence of her LP, listed in order of execution from start to finish:

    1.) Three Turn, counterclockwise (x2)
    2.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
    3.) Twizzle, clockwise
    4). Toe Hop, counterlockwise
    5.) Rocker, counterclockwise
    6.) Change edge from inside to outside
    7.) Three Turn, clockwise
    8.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (barely makes it around and free foot comes down quickly)
    9.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
    10.) Loop, clockwise
    11.) Three Turn, clockwise
    12.) Choctaw, counterclockwise
    13.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise
    14.) Toe Steps, clockwise
    15.) Rocker, clockwise
    16.) Counter, clockwise
    17.) Bracket, counterclockwise (FAILED attempt, edge is flat before the turn and unsteady on exit, with free foot coming down)
    18.) Mohawk, counterclockwise
    19.) Loop, counterclockwise
    20.) Toe Hop, clockwise
    21.) Chasse, clockwise
    22.) Rocker, clockwise
    23.) Rocker, counterclockwise (barely, edge is shallow and immediately changes over)
    24.) Rocker, counterclockwise
    25.) Chasse, clockwise (x3)
    26.) Edge change from inside to outside
    27.) Edge change from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice
    28.) Rocker, clockwise (barely, edge is shallow and immediately changes over)
    29.) Three Turn, clockwise

    5 types of turns need to be executed in both directions. By my count Sotnikova only executed 4 types of turns in both directions - Three Turn, Rocker, Loop, and Twizzle (and this one is very questionable on the counterclockwise attempt).

    3 types of steps need to be executed in both directions and I only see 1 type of step executed in both directions - Toe Hop.

    She not only failed to achieve the #1 criteria for Level 4, but she also failed to achieve the #4 criteria. Other people who are able to, analyze this step sequence with me and let's uncover the truth.

    -----

    See my post HERE that analyzes Yu-Na's footwork sequence, which is a Level 4.

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    Be sure to analyse the other skaters too for comparison, at this level of detail.
    Unless this is Just Another Hate Sotnikova Thread?

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    Kisdom Title TMC's Avatar
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    Thanks, you went to some trouble to do that! I'm not well-versed enough to do it, but a similar analysis of Yuna & Carolina's stsqs would be very interesting!

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    My IJS checklist results for the top 4 (Yuna, Carolina, Sotnikova, Mao) have been deleted... last week... and I can't recover myself from that. However, I think I concluded that she did a decent Lv. 3, and gave +2.

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    So what illegitimate stuff can we remove from Sotnikova's TES advantage?
    3Lz(e)-3T< overlooked (-1.2, -1.7 GOE)
    StSq Lvl3 (-0.6)
    -3.5 => 72.04 TES (below Asada's, and Sotnikova still has the inflated GOE)

    Kim's LP
    StSq Lvl3=>4 (+0.6)
    +0.6 => 70.29 TES

    The gap narrows... very easy to argue now that Yuna should be ahead of Adelina based on PCS. Though I would've still argued that Yuna should've had at least a 5 PCS advantage over Sotnikova anyway.

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    Are we still being surprised "finding" stuff like this out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    So what illegitimate stuff can we remove from Sotnikova's TES advantage?
    3Lz(e)-3T< overlooked (-1.2, -1.7 GOE)
    StSq Lvl3 (-0.6)
    -3.5 => 72.04 TES (below Asada's, and Sotnikova still has the inflated GOE)

    Kim's LP
    StSq Lvl3=>4 (+0.6)
    +0.6 => 70.29 TES

    The gap narrows... very easy to argue now that Yuna should be ahead of Adelina based on PCS. Though I would've still argued that Yuna should've had at least a 5 PCS advantage over Sotnikova anyway.
    But you need to factor in Kim's underrotated 3lz, which was given full credit & positive GOE.

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    Blades of Passion, great post. Thanks.

    Can you also explain the SP Stsqs of Yuna and AS, I for one thinks Yuna's SP stsq should be 4 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YesWay View Post
    Be sure to analyse the other skaters too for comparison, at this level of detail.
    Unless this is Just Another Hate Sotnikova Thread?
    But levels are not awarded by comparison to other skaters - you either fulfill the requirements or you don't. As per BoP's analysis, Adelina didn't and I don't see how pointing that out amounts to hating the skater (disagreeing with the scoring is another thing entirely).

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki View Post
    But levels are not awarded by comparison to other skaters - you either fulfill the requirements or you don't. As per BoP's analysis, Adelina didn't and I don't see how pointing that out amounts to hating the skater (disagreeing with the scoring is another thing entirely).
    I don't think any hates Adelina. She just benefits from the Sochi judging, but she did nothing wrong.

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    I thought the rule meant that you had to do 5 different turns clockwise and 5 different turns counterclockwise, not that it had to be the same 5. Not saying I'm necessarily right but that was just my understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki View Post
    But levels are not awarded by comparison to other skaters - you either fulfill the requirements or you don't. As per BoP's analysis, Adelina didn't and I don't see how pointing that out amounts to hating the skater (disagreeing with the scoring is another thing entirely).
    You are missing the point.

    If (!) we take BoP's analysis to be correct, it implies that the judges gave her level 4 when it should have been level 3. Was that unfair? Did she alone benefit from such judging, or were other skaters given the same benefit too? Did it influence the finishing positions? By how much? etc etc.

    We won't know any of that unless we impartially analyse the other skaters in the same way. Failure to do this implies that this is indeed, another Bash Sotnikova thread. Because it singles her out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayW View Post
    I don't think any hates Adelina. She just benefits from the Sochi judging, but she did nothing wrong.
    Exactly, We can feel free to talk about this without being accused of Sotnikova hate,
    I think there's a big enough consensus that this is an actual "thing"

    Besides, If there would've been an actual investigation of the judging, Like over 2 million people demanded,
    Than both YesWaY and us would have our goals acquired

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    Than both YesWaY and us would have our goals acquired
    Indeed.

    Whatever the motives, I do hope that others will chip in to corroborate/correct BoP's analysis as applicable, and add similar analyses for other skaters.

    If this thread can avoid getting too derailed, I think it could be one of the very few threads able to reach some kind of objective consensus, based on the rules and easily observed/verifiable skating elements.

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    Wow. Hat's off to Blades of Passion--who is not a Yuna uber, but is doing a much, much better job than many Yuna ubers at explaining why he disagrees with the judging results, explaining what was called incorrectly and why, and does it without discrediting what Adelina Sotnikova did or without ignoring Yuna's weaknesses.

    Your hard work and commitment to objectively analyzing the issue of accurate scoring is really appreciated.

    FWIW, Adelina received a level 3 step sequence in the FS at 2014 Europeans, 2013 GPF, 2013 TEB. She received a level 2 in the FS at 2013 Cup of China.

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