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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #946
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    I think the conclusion is simple:

    On the objective side

    - Adelina got generous PCS boost <-------- it's a fact, compare to her previous performances
    - Other Russian skaters got generous scores, despite the fact that they deserved the win (V/T), Yulia (despite a fall) <------------ it's a fact
    - Adelina didn't get called on her mistakes <------------ it's merely a fact now, though I am not a tech specialist, I put my trust in BoP and many others
    - Other skaters also got overlook on some mistakes <-----------Yup, but not as much as Russian skaters
    - Adelina's step sequence was just level 3, and Yuna's was level 4 <----------It's a fact, though I am no tech specialist here, but I put my trust in BoP

    ==> Overall, it's so obvious that the scores were rigged, but we might never know how. It's is extremely frustrating but it's the truth. ISU will probably pull the card "it's subjective and we thought Adelina was the best of that night." <----- end of story because we have solid proof like record, emails... to prove, the judges would never admit that they rigged the scores. It's obvious that Adelina's score shouldn't be on that level. But ISU can always use the excuse that the judges simple liked her.
    --------------------
    Now, on the subjective side

    - Lots of people think Yuna's performance were the greatest that night, but still underscored <--------- I disagree, I think her score was quite rightful. The problem is they over-scored Adelina.

    - Some people think Mao delivered the performance of that night, but extremely underscored because she was out of podium anyway. <---------- I agree, even though I am not her fan, I dislike the music. So if people demand fair judging, they should take careful look at other skaters' scores and demand fair scores for them also, not only for Yuna.

    - Some people think Adelina's performance was not as bad as people had exaggerated, they think her performance was lively, energetic and she had the skate of her life, some even like her performance better than Yuna. <--------- I agree. Despite the flaws, her jumps are huge and her performance was impressive overall. Most commentators expressed their amuse at her programs until they see the unbelievable high scores. Still it's true that they found her amazing, which proves that she was truly a medal-worthy of that night. But was she amazing enough to be the gold medal?
    I don't think so, I think she should just get the bronze. But it's true her performance is likeable. Setting the placement aside, she had a strongest skate of her life. So it's understandable that there are people who appreciate her performance than Yuna. I am one of those who feel more during her skate, I think Yuna's fans shouldn't dismiss her like" she skated ugly" and "like a beast". Because it's not true and it's insulting.
    Again, it's subjective so people have the rights to hold on to their feelings and opinions, it's funny that some people say people like Adelina's FS are stupid and new to FS. As a take back, I doubt that most Yuna's fans actually know FS.

    - Some people think Yuna's performance and strategy was somewhat lackluster, that the choice of music and so-so choreography harmed her. <------ I agree. I think Yuna's performance was classy, beautiful, consistent, but kinda off. David Wilson's programs this season were all lackluster (counted the top men here). She should have been the gold/silver tie with Kostner, who I found more charming and lovely. And it's not only me who prefer Kostner performance and think that Kostner should have higher PCS. I have read some reviews and blogs about figure skating, they have the same ideas as mine. So I am not alone. Since this is subjective, you can't say: "you are blind/stupid to think that way."

  2. #947
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    I think any discussion about gold and silver without Kostner will always be incomplete.

  3. #948
    Love popcorn, hate horendous costumes Meoima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I think any discussion about gold and silver without Kostner will always be incomplete.
    Apparently some blogger like Morozombie, some confesses on figure skating confession blog, and Brian Orser think that Kostner should have been the winner. And I am sure some people in Europe also have the same impression.
    People write Kostner off because she is not the queen. She was also robbed, if they use the same logic they apply to Yuna.
    And in that same logic, Mao was also robbed off the 5th place, too.
    I have read a blog by a Canadian (but forgot to bookmark it) saying, why the US and the media got crazy over Yuna only getting a silver and forget all other skaters. Very good entry but what a pity I couldn't find the link.

  4. #949
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    Adelina deserved Mao's FS score. Mao deserved Adelina's FS score. Judges had the right scores written down beforehand but just gave it to the wrong girls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    I think any discussion about gold and silver without Kostner will always be incomplete.
    Well not if BoP is part of the discussion as he can not stand her. Talk about objectivity and facts there.

  6. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jump View Post
    Adelina deserved Mao's FS score. Mao deserved Adelina's FS score. Judges had the right scores written down beforehand but just gave it to the wrong girls.
    Agree, actually I think Mao deserves higher than that. 150 at least. For such an emotional program.

  7. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    If you consider (starting at 4:06) doing two back crossovers into a 2A is "packed choreography" and "complex turns" then I suppose you aren't ever going to appreciate Adelina's actual packed choreography and complex turns before her jumps. You don't have to agree with Adelina's win but it is silly to act like Yuna's 2A at the end of the program was so amazing because she did two back crossovers before and a spin after.
    Wow. Adelina really does have packed choreography. Like what? waving to the judges? And maybe you mean the first 10 seconds of adelina's fs which she saves her energy to have a where is my flip-flop step, and to wave at judges, and to flounder her arms in the air.

  8. #953
    Size 7 Knife Boots Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jump View Post
    Adelina deserved Mao's FS score. Mao deserved Adelina's FS score. Judges had the right scores written down beforehand but just gave it to the wrong girls.
    I think we're on the same page here.

  9. #954
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    While watching the competition on TV, caught up in the moment, I was totally on Team Yuna and wanted her to win so badly. I did find her LP a bit of a letdown after that gorgeous SP, but that SP won me over for life. Imo, her SP should've scored higher and propelled her to the win. That's the problem with the current lack of bonus for combination jumps--her 3Lz-3T didn't get any more than Adelina's 3T-3T and solo 3Lz. So partly, the problem is the stupid rules (not just conspiracy). Add to that the home ice advantage (doesn't only work for Russians) and that she's reigning Olympic champ and the judges will be marking her not against her competitors, but her own best (unfair, but we can't control that)... Cards were stacked against Yuna.

    Now, looking over everything, I still think Adelina was overscored. If there is a conspiracy, and that seems possible, it's bad for the sport and I really hope it doesn't happen again. But, though the scores may not be correct, I... kinda don't have an opinion on who should've won overall. All three ladies skated extremely well, and I think I'm happy with any kind of placement between them. (Carolina really grew on me after the event.) And to be honest, the way Yuna's fans are acting is more disgusting than even the scoring itself. Perhaps that's what knocked me off Team Yuna and into Team Anyone Is Fine. I know that has nothing to do with the skates, but honestly, I feel really bad for the way Adelina's getting treated. None of this was her fault. I liked her Sochi skates, even if I liked Yuna's better, and I hope she does well in the future (and Yuna's retired and Caro's probably retired, so she won't be robbing them, guys).

    I'm sad this controversy is marring a fantastic night of skating. They saved Sochi FS, after the guys ruined it.

  10. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by ioanablabla View Post
    You wanted to see 2010 Vancouver Yuna probably like many others. Also many expected a sensual, fiery tango and can't see adios... as a tango.
    It wasn't as impressive like her other programs(gershwin, les mis) at first, but as I watch more and more, I started to recognize the true beauty of her program. To me, it's filled with impressive choreography and step sequences. Moving vigorously doesn't equate difficulty. Yuna became one with the music and played the music. She even presented several tango movements well like 'enrosque', 'voleo', and 'abrazo'. She performed 'nuevo tango' very well. To me, this is the most difficult and impressive program among any other programs from Yuna. Never gets boring even after watching many times.

    At first, I couldn't understand the program and was baffled at her cold looking performance. She could have chosen more enthusiastic music. I also hoped that she would bring back other program like les mis, but I guess Yuna didn't like to bring old programs as she has never done.

    The music is about elegy to late father. Therefore, Yuna's performance is different from ordinary sassy Tango(different from her previous roxanne de tango). It's about a memory of past, most of the performance is subdued, emotions are burning inside, occasionally a flash of lightness and smile, even a little flirtatious, and reflecting the memory of good times. in the end, reminisce of everything: good, bad, ugly.

    Her music was very risk-taking that just little mistake can ruin the whole program as her choreography is structured very tightly.

    I prefer you watching this in 720p. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxwL...JvZkxMdWs/edit It's a camera-mixed version.

    Let me just clarify about Mao and Kostner. I don't mean to bash or belittle them, but I'm afraid Mao and Kostner don't deserve the first place. I love mao's step-sequence, but her jumps are executed in wrong techniques. I loved Kostner's Ave Maria personally as a catholic. Kostner was very emotional and has good step sequence, but she doesn't have good transitions and her speed before executing her jumps are slower than she was years before. I think she decided to go with consistency rather than the quality.

  11. #956
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatif View Post
    I see you are also suffering from megalomania. You are NOT a technical specialist, you are NOT everyone nor your opinions are facts.
    at least BOP made his own analysis here.. what about you??

  12. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpiper View Post
    I'm sad this controversy is marring a fantastic night of skating. They saved Sochi FS, after the guys ruined it.
    Don't be sad. Plenty of people disagree with the decision but it is only on message boards and in Korea where there is any "controversy" at all. Not even Michelle Kwan could bring herself to explicitly state that Yuna should have won when she had the chance, and she skates in Yuna's shows! Like you and me, most people saw and enjoyed a fantastic night of skating and it's only a handful of (very loud) people complaining about the outcome.

  13. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    at least BOP made his own analysis here.. what about you??
    i don't make false claims of being technical specialist. I trust the ones who actually are, like the ones who actually go through years of experience and earn to be called so. And don't talk to me unless you have been talked to. Bye.

  14. #959
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatif View Post
    i don't make false claims of being technical specialist. I trust the ones who actually are, like the ones who actually go through years of experience and earn to be called so. And don't talk to me unless you have been talked to. Bye.
    at least he took time and make his point.. what the heck have you done to make a counter argument?? nothing..

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Don't be sad. Plenty of people disagree with the decision but it is only on message boards and in Korea where there is any "controversy" at all. Not even Michelle Kwan could bring herself to explicitly state that Yuna should have won when she had the chance, and she skates in Yuna's shows! Like you and me, most people saw and enjoyed a fantastic night of skating and it's only a handful of (very loud) people complaining about the outcome.
    because figure skating is not a mainstream sport..even to others.. they will argue it is not a sport.. and korea is no u-s-a.. but in figure skating world everybody knows the controversy.. and i doubt this will go away when pyeongchang will host the olympics in 4 years..

  15. #960
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    @Blades of Passion

    What's your opinion on this? https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxaz...NvNTJqdHdlMkE/
    If you can't download it, you can access on here, but you can't see the moving gif. https://docs.google.com/presentation...LQ7xbgXH3-gME/

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