Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

lilahozi said:
However, I don't agree with posters (regardless of their stance) whose method of debate involves posting contradictory remarks, selectively ignoring valid arguments and rebuttals, cherry-picking facts, and misinterpreting other people's statements, who then resort to name-calling when their logical fallacies are called out on publicly.

Unlike you, I think any of the top 3 would be worthy champions. I thought Adelina deserved to win but I wouldn't have attacked Yuna or Caro supporters had either of those skaters won. I don't see Mao or Caro or Adelina supporters trashing Yuna, but check out Adelina's social media accounts and you see a lot of sad, pathetic Yuna fans posting mean things.

You obviously think Yuna was perfect that night, that every element (including that scary borderline < 3Lz) deserved the high GOE received. I don't agree and I think the judges were a bit lenient on Yuna too. It doesn't make me a bad person, I just saw the competition differently than you

Vanshilar · Jun 2, 2014

Mathman said:
Michelle Kwan discussed the women’s LP events twice for Fox Sports 1. I can’t find the first one on You Tube at the moment, but in her recap right after the event she did managed to get out the words, after some hemming and hawing, “Sotnikova won, fair and square.”

A couple days later, when asked about the biggest disappointment at the Olympics, Kwan said about the judging controversy "don't change the judging system, it's the people in the system", "I hope it changes", and "it's not the system, just make sure you have the right people judging figure skating." In other words, the problem isn't the measuring stick; it's the people doing the measuring. That's the ringing endorsement of the results that Kwan gave according to some posters here.

Starts at 6:29 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWjEQJwKlK4

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

At least they have Scott Hamilton, who is willing to say anything and take any position, just as long as it's the one decided by his bosses.

People make fun of Elvis, but at least he's consistent with his opinion. He will always like the best jumper, and you know that ahead of time. He's honest, even if you disagree with him. Scott Hamilton on the other hand, one Olympics it's all about the jumping, and another one it's about more than the jumping, and this one is about this storyline, and that one is about this other storyline. Always some BS to sell you, don't look behind the curtain. The easiest way to spot dishonest people ... they always contradict themselves.

Ophelia · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
Unlike you, I think any of the top 3 would be worthy champions. I thought Adelina deserved to win but I wouldn't have attacked Yuna or Caro supporters had either of those skaters won. I don't see Mao or Caro or Adelina supporters trashing Yuna, but check out Adelina's social media accounts and you see a lot of sad, pathetic Yuna fans posting mean things.

You obviously think Yuna was perfect that night, that every element (including that scary borderline < 3Lz) deserved the high GOE received. I don't agree and I think the judges were a bit lenient on Yuna too. It doesn't make me a bad person, I just saw the competition differently than you

Why would Mao, Caro, or Adelina supporters be trashing Yuna? Adelina is the one who got the gold. If Mao didn't bomb in the SP and placed second overall, all the Asada uberfans would be out with their pitchforks after Sotnikova. Carolina is just thankful that she held it together (though she expressed hem-haw sentiments about the results in an interview recently). I've seen several Sotnikova supporters trashing Yuna, including in these forums.

Thank you again, for shoving words into my mouth. Nowhere did I ever say Yuna was perfect that night. She skated cleanly, but I repeatedly stated that I thought her LP was a snoozefest and her skating was muted as it has been post 2011.

Mathman · Jun 2, 2014

Here is the first MK piece, where she says, "Under the scoring syastem, hands down, Adelina won fair and square. Personally I enjoy Yuna Kim's skating more because of her combination or artistry and athleticism. But Adelina's program was jam-packed (with technical difficulty)."

http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/video?related=b9d72ab1-3416-42ad-9365-ca5f06f8a1bd

Taking all the interviews together, I have the impression that in the moment she (in common with the judges) was impressed with Adelina's performance, but that on subsequent viewings and further reflection, doubts began to creep in.

(Yes, I have the power to read Michelle's mind.

)

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

Ven said:
*Read the live thread. You will see nearly without exception everyone mocked the competition as it happened.

Let's look:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?49008-2014-Olympics-Ladies-Free-Skate/page80
Post #1189, Blades of Passion: "Sotnikova deserves to go above Kostner with this."
Post #1230, CanadianSkaterGuy: "WOW, expectedly super high PCS, but should certainly be leading."
Post #1362, ks777: "Adelina was magical, she didn't hold back. Yuna looked tenative throughout."
Post #1366, ucrgirl: "Yuna didn't seem to put enough effort into her programs to win when the others were spectacular."
Post #1369, sam-skwantch: "Congrats to Adelina. I think she actually was the best skater in this competition and deserving. Fair podium IMO."
Post #1451, nater: "Kim was hurt by the fact that she didn't improve her spins at all since Vancouver, only has 6 triples, and had empty programs. There was also pretty much no performance quality in those programs. She skated them like she had a BT Headset on and was talking to a sponsor on the phone."

Certainly there was outrage expressed but I would not say that nearly everyone without exception was outraged at the result. (I myself was outraged at Julia's PCS > Mao's but for me Adelina was scored right.)

Meoima · Jun 2, 2014

Mathman said:
Taking all the interviews together, I have the impression that in the moment she (in common with the judges) was impressed with Adelina's performance, but that on subsequent viewings and further reflection, doubts began to creep in.

Controversy aside, I have to say I was very impressed with Adelina's performance. And my friends, who were watching with me at the time, said they dislike her style. I was very curious to see the girl who my friends dislike, well it turned out I don't dislike her at all. I am not a fan of that style (usually I don't watch lady event unless it's Olympic), but when she skated like that, objectively I have to say she left a good impression on me.

chloepoco · Jun 2, 2014

Ven said:
Michelle Kwan was as contradictory with her comments as you are here with yours daisy.

Ven said:
At least they have Scott Hamilton, who is willing to say anything and take any position, just as long as it's the one decided by his bosses.

People make fun of Elvis, but at least he's consistent with his opinion. He will always like the best jumper, and you know that ahead of time. He's honest, even if you disagree with him. Scott Hamilton on the other hand, one Olympics it's all about the jumping, and another one it's about more than the jumping, and this one is about this storyline, and that one is about this other storyline. Always some BS to sell you, don't look behind the curtain. The easiest way to spot dishonest people ... they always contradict themselves.

I can't believe this thread is still going on.....BUT.....are you calling Michelle Kwan "dishonest"? That's sacrilegious!!

Mathman · Jun 2, 2014

chloepoco said:
I can't believe this thread is still going on.....BUT.....are you calling Michelle Kwan "dishonest"? That's sacrilegious!!

Her "position evolved."

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
Let's look:

I think cross posting is against TOS and spamming, but if I were to do it, there would literally be hundreds of comments that expressed -- in real time -- disgust with the judging. Anyone is free to read the thread for themselves.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

Ven said:
I think cross posting is against TOS and spamming, but if I were to do it, there would literally be hundreds of comments that expressed -- in real time -- disgust with the judging. Anyone is free to read the thread for themselves.

It's not. You continue to exaggerate and lie so I'm showing you posts in which people support some of the outcomes of Sot vs Caro and Sot vs Yuna.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

chloepoco said:
I can't believe this thread is still going on.....BUT.....are you calling Michelle Kwan "dishonest"? That's sacrilegious!!

If Michelle is dishonest than I happy to be dishonest with her.

It's so silly that someone who states an opinion can be considered dishonest.

MiRé · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
It's not. You continue to exaggerate and lie so I'm showing you posts in which people support some of the outcomes of Sot vs Caro and Sot vs Yuna.

Liars can't use that word

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

Melon said:
Liars can't use that word

So you better not use it then.

Ophelia · Jun 2, 2014

Whilst I do think some of Ven's statements are stretching it, she (or he) is correct that in real time, there was ALOT of outrage when the final scores came out (both on GS and on FSU). This is an objective statement, not subjective. Anyone who wants to disagree can go tally up the numbers.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?49008-2014-Olympics-Ladies-Free-Skate/page90

The ONTD community, which was watching and commentating on the FS, and is on average less biased that the skating forums, exploded in real time and was throwing virtual bananas at the computer screen.

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
It's not. You continue to exaggerate and lie so I'm showing you posts in which people support some of the outcomes of Sot vs Caro and Sot vs Yuna.

Do you really want me to copy and past the hundreds of posts that say otherwise? I'm glad you could find a couple for yourself, consider that a consolation prize.

Heck, even some of the ones you found were followed up with posts by the same users who expressed outrage at Sot's score.

MiRé · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
So you better not use it then.

Mao got higher PCS in the SP, Julia higher PCS in the LP. Why do you think that is? Hint: check the start order.
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program

:rofl:

Your move?

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 2, 2014

Her "position evolved."

It's ok to change your mind and its not neccasarily contradictory or insincere. The thing is a fair person is willing to concede certain points that they may have interpreted in one way but in hindsight perceive in another. Sticking your guns has merits as well but no more than the ability to adapt and accept a new take on an old situation.

Ven · Jun 2, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
It's so silly that someone who states an opinion can be considered dishonest.

An opinion is consistent and unwavering. A lie depends on which way the wind blows, and is full of contradictions.

drivingmissdaisy · Jun 2, 2014

Melon said:
PCS marks reflect what is exhibited in the program presented, not how skilled the skater is outside the context of the program

Your move?

As much as I appreciate your obsession with me, it deflects from any meaningful discussion of why Adelina deserved to win, which is why I'm here.

Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

drivingmissdaisy

Vanshilar

Ven

Match Penalty

Ophelia

Mathman

drivingmissdaisy

Meoima

Match Penalty

chloepoco

Mathman

Ven

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

drivingmissdaisy

MiRé

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

Ophelia

Ven

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MiRé

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Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Ven

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

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