Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS | Page 53 | Golden Skate

Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

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Ven

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Well, I don't think Adelina's win is quite the joke you think it is

I have a .gif of Sotnikova clumsily stumbling over herself in the LP, with a childlike, bemused "oops, I did it again" smile on her face, that says otherwise.
 

Sandpiper

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I'm sorry, but it's this kind of attitude that has knocked me off Team Yuna. I really wish it wasn't so and we could all just enjoy and evaluate the skating.
 

pangtongfan

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Well, I don't think Adelina's win is quite the joke you think it is, so we'll have to agree to disagree? Or maybe you can use Meoima's time machine and speak to the enraged Team Yuna me from right after the ladies' results. :laugh:

I think all the scores in Sochi were a joke, not just Adelina's win. V&T missing both throws and getting +3s in GOE for them. S&S could have skated clean with a clean throw 3 axel and still wouldnt have won gold over V&T with their mistakes. The whole thing was a big Russian party, and nobody else was invited. It was Russian Nationals, held at the Olympics instead. If you watched the Olympic figure skating and didnt get that, well you needed more coffee in you I guess.
 

Ven

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I think all the scores in Sochi were a joke, not just Adelina's win. V&T missing both throws and getting +3s in GOE for them. S&S could have skated clean with a clean throw 3 axel and still wouldnt have won gold over V&T with their mistakes. The whole thing was a big Russian party, and nobody else was invited. It was Russian Nationals, held at the Olympics instead. If you watched the Olympic figure skating and didnt get that, well you needed more coffee in you I guess.

Yep, the judging was fixed throughout all of the figure skating competitions.

As you mentioned, V/T could have and did make mistakes and still been victorious over anyone else no matter what they did.

Plushenko's scores in the Team Event were a joke, as was the margin of Lipnitskaia's victory over Gracie Gold.

The ladies' event was just the icing on the cake.
 

pangtongfan

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I should not I am also someone who has defended V&T and their scores (usually) many other times, and have even argued S&S are the ones who in the past had some questionable wins, not V&T (and they still havent as they still deserved their fixed Olympic win based on how all the performances went), and even a couple over V&T themselves that maybe should have gone the other way (2011 gpf, 2012 worlds). So I am certainly not someone who in general prefers S&S to V&T per say. However when you study the protocals of the Olympics, it is quite clear how fixed the whole thing was in every discipline.
 

Sandpiper

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I agree V/T and Adelina were overscored, but some of these claims are ridiculous. Two-fall Plush winning over clean Chan (not even any of the Plush mega-fans--myself included--would hand over OGM to him in that case)? Adelina would've won if she fell, and if she fell more than once Yulia would win? Unfortunately, I can't take your coffee advice because coffee doesn't work on me.
 

pangtongfan

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We arent implying Plushenko would ever deserve to beat a clean Chan or clean Hanyu. Of course not, who would ever suggest that in a million years at this stage of Plushenko's career. We are implying the whole event was so fixed in favor of the Russians that it would have happened. You seem to be confusing the two. Then again that you seem to be in such denial you dont think anything was wrong, anymore than any normal skating competition, there is no point even going further with you.

And of course Adelina would have won if she fell. She won by 6 points. If she fell on the jump she badly two footed she would have won by about 3 points still. If she fell on a 2nd she might lose, or might get a further PCS or GOE boost (much more likely) or Yu Na further dumpage in her scores to mantain her win.
 

Meoima

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I agree V/T and Adelina were overscored, but some of these claims are ridiculous. Two-fall Plush winning over clean Chan (not even any of the Plush mega-fans--myself included--would hand over OGM to him in that case)? Adelina would've won if she fell, and if she fell more than once Yulia would win? Unfortunately, I can't take your coffee advice because coffee doesn't work on me.
Agree. :agree: the scores were so obviously rigged but I think the judges would only give the gold to Russians if they stayed on their feet. There would be very little chance of Plushy fell twice so had he stayed he would eventually got the gold without any controversy. They can make mistakes, but stay on their feet is a must.
 

pangtongfan

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That Old Plushenko only has to stay on his feet to beat a good Hanyu or Chan, given where his skating is at this stage in his career, is already laughable enough if we are willing to agree just that far. That a skater like Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya merely has to stay on her feet to beat skaters like Asada, Kostner, and Kim is equally, if not even more, laughable.
 
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Sandpiper

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I understand exactly what you're saying. I don't agree, that's all. The results can be fixed all they want but the athlete still has to deliver. It just so happened that Adelina and V/T made minor mistakes, but not enough to lose them the gold.

I don't agree with the scores. I don't even necessarily agree with the placements. I agree there is likely some homecooking going on. I'm just saying the claims are exaggerated. I don't think two-fall Plush or Adelina would've have won against clean competitors, no matter how much homecooking was going on. But neither of us can claim for sure what would've happened.
 

pangtongfan

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I understand exactly what you're saying. I don't agree, that's all. The results can be fixed all they want but the athlete still has to deliver. It just so happened that Adelina and V/T made minor mistakes, but not enough to lose them the gold.

Talking that way about Adelina, a skater who isnt even CLOSE to being the best skater in the world is an utter joke. Only minor mistakes arent enough to lose her the gold, even if three better skaters are clean. :laugh: Sorry, but just no. On what planet did anyone pre Games say as long as Sotnikova only has minor mistakes she is certain to have a commanding win no matter what anyone else does.

As for V&T, no with minor (but very obvious) mistakes on 2 major elements and S&S going clean with a throw triple axel, they absolutely would not have deserved to win. Still would have of course, their gold was bought and paid for long ago after all, but not deservedly.
 

Sandpiper

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I didn't say Adelina deserved to win, did I? I said homecooking was probably at work, but even then the athlete still has to deliver. Adelina and V/T delivered (just enough). Adelina with two-falls would've counted as "not delivering," and I don't think she would've won.
 

drivingmissdaisy

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That a skater like Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya merely has to stay on her feet to beat skaters like Asada, Kostner, and Kim is equally, if not even more, laughable.

It's refreshing to see that a skater like Yuna can't just waltz in, rest on her reputation and do fewer triples and easier jumps, and win. She avoided competing against the best this season until Sochi and everyone was alarmed how lacking her program was when compared next to Adelina in the same event.
 

Ven

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I didn't say Adelina deserved to win, did I? I said homecooking was probably at work, but even then the athlete still has to deliver. Adelina and V/T delivered (just enough). Adelina with two-falls would've counted as "not delivering," and I don't think she would've won.

One fall would have been good enough though? :laugh:
 

Ven

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It's refreshing to see that a skater like Yuna can't just waltz in, rest on her reputation and do fewer triples and easier jumps, and win. She avoided competing against the best this season until Sochi and everyone was alarmed how lacking her program was when compared next to Adelina in the same event.

No, nobody was alarmed. Many people thought she skated lights out. The commentators and fans across the world gushed about her performance.
 

drivingmissdaisy

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No, nobody was alarmed. Many people thought she skated lights out. The commentators and fans across the world gushed about her performance.

A lot of people, even Yuna fans who still thought she should have won, thought her performance was flat. There's a reason she hasn't skated in a GP event since 2009, and it's because she doesn't want to have her programs assessed against her top competitors until she is forced to a Worlds/Olympics.
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Once again, you're just making this up and attempting revisionist history. People GUSHED about her performance.

People did gush about her performance. And other people thought it was flat. What universe do you live in that you think everyone liked Yuna's performance?
 
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