Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

wolkenschloss · Mar 14, 2014

Big thanks, Blades of Passion, for your convincing analysis. Such an Explanation as yours was reallly desired for many fs fans.
I understand now much better why I doubted the given Levels.

Mao88 · Mar 14, 2014

Another Yuna fan thread full of complete garbage

If one were to gather together all of the Yuna fan trolling in to one place, not just on this forum, but everywhere else as well, and print it all off on to paper, then there would be enough toilet paper to last everyone on the planet for the next 30 years. What a bunch of sore losers

This thread should have been placed into the judging conspiracy thread. I thought it was decided that all of the evil/trolling should be confined to one place.

ADELINA SOTNIKOVA - OLYMPIC CHAMPION :clap:

arty:

jand0387 · Mar 14, 2014

Mao88 said:
Another Yuna fan thread full of complete garbage

If one were to gather together all of the Yuna fan trolling in to one place, not just on this forum, but everywhere else as well, and print it all off on to paper, then there would be enough toilet paper to last everyone on the planet for the next 30 years. What a bunch of sore losers

This thread should have been placed into the judging conspiracy thread. I thought it was decided that all of the evil/trolling should be confined to one place.

ADELINA SOTNIKOVA - OLYMPIC CHAMPION arty:

Excuse me, this thread was just meant to analyse the step sequence objectively, but it's people like you spreading the hate actually.

bara1968 · Mar 14, 2014

Thank you for your time and effort, BOP.

For me, it's even wierder now, how on earth Tech panel misjudged Yuna's stsq level, given that there were 20 more movements in hers than Sot's. It does not need extra 30 secs to figure out which one's more complicated.

And somebody is showing us what it means by "ultimate trolling" once again.

JayW · Mar 14, 2014

BlackPack said:
I don't know if this has been posted already.

This is a side-by-side top view of Yuna's and Adelina's LPs. It seemed to me that Adelina skated faster than Yuna. And before anyone claims that Yuna's choreography and transitions are more difficult and intricate - not really. Yuna's Tango isn't at the level of Danse Macabre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFuocB9GHE

I saw otherwise. Yuna skates faster and has better ice coverage.

JayW · Mar 14, 2014

Mao88 said:
Another Yuna fan thread full of complete garbage

If one were to gather together all of the Yuna fan trolling in to one place, not just on this forum, but everywhere else as well, and print it all off on to paper, then there would be enough toilet paper to last everyone on the planet for the next 30 years. What a bunch of sore losers

This thread should have been placed into the judging conspiracy thread. I thought it was decided that all of the evil/trolling should be confined to one place.

ADELINA SOTNIKOVA - OLYMPIC CHAMPION arty:

Enemy's enemy becomes friends, eh?

ILuvYuna · Mar 14, 2014

bara1968 said:
It does not need extra 30 secs to figure out which one's more complicated.

There is a video floating around that shows both sequences side by side (looking for it now).

Kim's sequence is like a good 10 seconds longer than Adelina's. I thought that was strange, but it kind of makes sense now. Doing more steps will probably take more time.

bsfan · Mar 14, 2014

sk8in said:
There is a difference between fs pr reps saying "it was totally fair!" so as not to discredit the sport that they profit from, and anyone actually endorsing Sotnikova's skating. Everyone knows she does not have the skating skill of Caro, or Yuna---and it is debatable where she stands against the other top 5 ladies. The whole false "artist" vs "technician" dichotomy got started as a way to explain away how such an ugly skater as Sotnikova could have won by 5 points. Again, Sotnikova is a laughing stock. She will go down in history as the most controversial women's figure skating champ in history.

I think Sotnikova is much prettier than most skaters with nice build and long limbs, instead of having long upper body.

What is this 'Everyone" about her skating skill? Why don't someone just write a paper and sort ourt skaters' skating skill order so they don' t have to go to competitions to fight for medals. Everything can be decided on paper and by fans who have numerous time to watch.

sk8in · Mar 14, 2014

bara1968 said:
Thank you for your time and effort, BOP.

For me, it's even wierder now, how on earth Tech panel misjudged Yuna's stsq level, given that there were 20 more movements in hers than Sot's. It does not need extra 30 secs to figure out which one's more complicated.

And somebody is showing us what it means by "ultimate trolling" once again.

It is a small detail in their overall scores, but given how blatantly wrong it is (I do not know how to analyse step sequences like BoP, but I could plainly see that Yuna's was longer and more intricate), it does cast doubt on the overall judging. As people have said, it is the 5 point spread that is so suspicious. It is really unfortunate because I think Yuna specifically did a really great job improving her interpretation from the last Olympics. Technically Piano Concerto in F has one more of her triples in combination (and in the second half), but in terms of her components Ninio was vastly improved. Perhaps keyly, instead of throwing a double onto the end of her last triple Salchow, she did this dramatic choreographic halting position. She was always fluid and musical, but before 2013 worlds she had kind of a vacant presentation.

leafygreens · Mar 14, 2014

Blades of Passion said:
As requested, I have written down all of the movements in Yu-Na Kim's LP footwork sequence:

1.) Toe step, counterclockwise
2.) Back edge pull with free foot toepick push, clockwise
2.) Mohawk, clockwise
3.) Waltz hop, clockwise
4.) Cross step, clockwise
5.) Change of edge from inside to outside with free foot in quick ina position, counterclockwise
6.) Change edge from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice
7.) Rocker, clockwise
8.) Bracket, clockwise
9.) Rocker, clockwise
10.) Cross Roll, counterclockwise
11.) Rocker, counterclockwise
12). Change edge from outside to inside
13.) Loop, counterclockwise
14.) Full turn on ice while changing feet, counterclockwise
15.) Toe steps, clockwise
16.) Rocker, clockwise
17.) Cross step, counterclockwise
18.) Choctaw executed with a hop, clockwise
19.) Twizzle, clockwise
20.) Chasse, clockwise
21.) Choctaw, counterclockwise
22.) Top hop, counterclockwise
23.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
24.) Rocker, counterclockwise
25.) Edge change from inside to outside
26.) Three turn, counterclockwise
27.) Brief back inside two foot glide with back free foot mini-kick
28.) Choctaw, clockwise
29.) Three turn, clockwise
30.) Loop, clockwise
31.) Toe hop, clockwise
32.) Chasse, counterclockwise
33.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
34.) Bracket, counterclockwise
35.) Cross step, clockwise
36.) Cross step, counterclockwise
37.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot push, clockwise
38.) Toe step, clockwise
39.) Counter, counterclockwise
40.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
41.) Three turn, counterclockwise
41.) Rocker, counterclockwise
42.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot placed on ice, counterclockwise
43.) Mohawk, counterclockwise
44.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise
45.) Chasse, counterclockwise
46.) Toe step, clockwise
47.) Cross step, counterclockwise
48.) Chasse, counterclockwise
49.) Toe step, counterclockwise

She has 5 types of turns in both directions - Rocker, Bracket, Twizzle, Loop, Three
She had 5 types of steps in both directions - Toe hop, Toe step, Chasse, Mohawk, Choctaw
She has full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
She most definitely has upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
She has 3 different combinations of three difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.

This footwork sequence is clearly Level 4.

This needs to be shown to the media, ASAP. The writers at The Wire, perhaps?

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 14, 2014

jand0387 said:
Excuse me, this thread was just meant to analyse the step sequence objectively, but it's people like you spreading the hate actually.

No, it was started to "uncover the truth," not be objective. Rather than explaining Adelina's high marks from 8 judges, the OP assumes each is either biased or unfit to judge.

Mathman · Mar 14, 2014

But is that an assumption or a conclusion?

Mista Ekko · Mar 14, 2014

Mao88 said:
Another Yuna fan thread full of complete garbage

If one were to gather together all of the Yuna fan trolling in to one place, not just on this forum, but everywhere else as well, and print it all off on to paper, then there would be enough toilet paper to last everyone on the planet for the next 30 years. What a bunch of sore losers

This thread should have been placed into the judging conspiracy thread. I thought it was decided that all of the evil/trolling should be confined to one place.

ADELINA SOTNIKOVA - OLYMPIC CHAMPION arty:

From one Mao superfan to another :

I'm proud of everyone who isn't sitting silent at the face of the Sochi debacle,
And who is not succumbing to lame insults such as yours
The more noise there is about this the less chance for this sport to go backwards.

bara1968 · Mar 14, 2014

No DMD, NO. The OP is not questioning GOE given by 8 judges.

OP is questioning levels of stsq, judged by "3 tech panels".

By the way, 2 out of 3 tech panels are related to Russia. It is not at all outrageous to question whether those were biased or not, given that Russian skaters got way with some technical flaws like wrong edge, which was determined by , again, those "3" tech panels.

And within given analysis, OP proved his argument that tech panel made wrong judgement on stsq levels. I do not find any subjectivity in his "analysis" itself.

JayW · Mar 14, 2014

Eladola said:
From one Mao superfan to another :

I'm proud of everyone who isn't sitting silent at the face of the Sochi debacle,
And who is not succumbing to lame insults such as yours
The more noise there is about this the less chance for this sport to go backwards.

Absolutely agree! :clap:

sk8in · Mar 14, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
No, it was started to "uncover the truth," not be objective. Rather than explaining Adelina's high marks from 8 judges, the OP assumes each is either biased or unfit to judge.

All BoP did was list the steps of each skater. It is amazing to me how stubborn you are.

kslr0816 · Mar 14, 2014

sk8in said:
All BoP did was list the steps of each skater. It is amazing to me how stubborn you are.

and note that DMD has nothing to say when actual data is posted, i.e. clamoring about Yuna's step sequence, which was done.

and this.

Mathman said:
The rule is quite clear. The interpretation given by Blades of Passion is not an interpretation at all -- it is just reading the words before us. Neither the ISU nor the IOC can change the result even if if is proved that the technical specialist and judges made mistakes.

--
BoP - thanks for listing out another skater's step sequence, even when it was not required. What else do the adelina ubers have to say next?

Mao88 · Mar 14, 2014

Eladola said:
From one Mao superfan to another :

I'm proud of everyone who isn't sitting silent at the face of the Sochi debacle,
And who is not succumbing to lame insults such as yours
The more noise there is about this the less chance for this sport to go backwards.

Your not fooling anybody - your a Yuna fan. And the truth does not constitute an insult

JayW said:
Absolutely agree!

One of your multiple pseud accounts no doubt Eladola. You know, talking to yourself is bad for you.

JayW said:
Enemy's enemy becomes friends, eh?

This highlights the number one problem with Yuna fans. They are so obsessed by Kim, that they regard all other skaters as 'enemies'. I don't.

port79 · Mar 14, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
No, it was started to "uncover the truth," not be objective. Rather than explaining Adelina's high marks from 8 judges, the OP assumes each is either biased or unfit to judge.

Analysis after analysis, what BoP is saying about the scoring resonates with a lot of peeps here.

When you’re talking about the judging, how can you conveniently take the tech panel, which has so much power to set the baselines for scorning, out of the picture?

Considering the bogus calls on, Sotnikova’s 3-3< (and flutz) and the step level, at a minimum, the four judges who scored 141-145 might not be completely irrational since the range would’ve gone down to 135-140 with the correct calls. That leaves the five scoring 151-155. We know for a fact the two judges are patently biased (or cheater). Are you suggesting that the rest three could’ve not been possibly influenced by the wife of the Russian Fed and the power behind?

Someone, I think who is way more authoritative and credible than you are, already debunked your last straw-judges invariably judge independently.

From a Dartmouth economics professor’s WSJ article--

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...dging-right-and-figure-skating-gets-it-wrong/

The reverse happens in figure skating. Not only does a figure skater with a compatriot judge get a higher score from that judge, but they also get higher scores on average from the other judges, too (compared with events when they are not represented on the panel). This is evidence of vote trading, of the kind that occurred at the Olympics in 1998, 2002, and (allegedly) is occurring in 2014. Most of the benefit of having a compatriot judge actually comes through the vote trading. Skaters even benefit from having compatriot judges on the panels of other events, which is consistent with the fact that the vote trading we know about is often across events.

I don't think you have ever responded to that?

capcomeback · Mar 14, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
No, it was started to "uncover the truth," not be objective. Rather than explaining Adelina's high marks from 8 judges, the OP assumes each is either biased or unfit to judge.

No. This is explaining that a Russian controlled tech panel:

1. Inflated the level of Adelina's step/turn sequences and deflated Yuna's to the tune of a 1.2 point total difference in base value.

2. Missed an edge call on a Adelina (a notorious flutzer) and an UR on the same combination (3lz-3T in the FS).

The rest can be blamed on the judges and their ridiculous GOEs and PCS scores. (lol)

BTW, Thanks BoP for your incredible efforts here! :clap:

Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

wolkenschloss

Mao88

jand0387

bara1968

JayW

JayW

ILuvYuna

bsfan

sk8in

Match Penalty

leafygreens

drivingmissdaisy

Mathman

Mista Ekko

bara1968

JayW

sk8in

Match Penalty

kslr0816

Mao88

port79

capcomeback

Similar threads

Connect with us