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Thread: Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    To call her steps "sloppy" when 8/9 judges scored it +2 or +3, to suggest her choreography was bad when 8/9 judges scored it 9+ is more than wondering how her performance was scored. Being told you can't read or that Tara Lipinski is fat are attacks that are quite personal in nature.
    Okay, now I'm confused. Is it that this thread is bashing Adelina or that you posters objecting to this thread are being bashed? I'm suddenly seeing a shift in the argument which is a little confusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlaysInTheDirt View Post
    Okay, now I'm confused. Is it that this thread is bashing Adelina or that you posters objecting to this thread are being bashed? I'm suddenly seeing a shift in the argument which is a little confusing.
    Well you brought up the off topic statement. I was just responding to what you wrote. What did you think about Adelina's steps, since that is the topic here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    This whole threads idea is based upon a reading of the rule that is meant to make it seem like sotnikova only deserved level 3. She got a level 4 and the rule supports giving a level 4. That's just based on all the elements of the step sequences listed by the op. if it was a fact that she deserved a level 3 step sequence and her triple toe was underrotated isu and ioc could without controversy change her score and take her gold away.
    The rule is quite clear. The interpretation given by Blades of Passion is not an interpretation at all -- it is just reading the words before us. Neither the ISU nor the IOC can change the result even if if is proved that the technical specialist and judges made mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Well you brought up the off topic statement. I was just responding to what you wrote. What did you think about Adelina's steps, since that is the topic here?
    Well that was an interesting smokescreen / diversion.

  5. #245
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    To call her steps "sloppy" when 8/9 judges scored it +2 or +3, to suggest her choreography was bad when 8/9 judges scored it 9+ is more than wondering how her performance was scored.
    Of course it's more than wondering, it's actual judging. Something I am capable of, much moreso than most sitting judges, and something many other experts of this sport are capable of.

    BTW, I've never called Adelina's choreography outright bad. I have even defended it against people who've said it was nothing but horrible/junior level. Of course, I don't think her choreography was great either.

    Neither of these things have been talked about in THIS thread, however. So why are you talking about it now instead of the actual issue at hand?

    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Being told you can't read or that Tara Lipinski is fat are attacks that are quite personal in nature.
    The former is not a personal attack, it's a factual assessment of your ability to read the ISU rule.

    The latter was never said by me and has nothing to do with Adelina or you or the scoring, so why are you talking about it?

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    We get it. You know more than all the experts who disagree with you. You don't have to keep reminding us of this.

  7. #247
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    You know more than all the experts who disagree with you.
    What experts? The judges are mostly not experts. They are not given sufficient training and there is no specific standard they are held to other than being in the 'corridor' with each other. And then of course there are the conflicts of interest...

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    What experts? The judges are mostly not experts. They are not given sufficient training. And then of course there are the conflicts of interest...
    I think there are some on these boards that are basically incapable of understanding that part and, thus, actually justify the French getting kicked off the podium in Ice Dance in favor of a good (but objectively worse) young Russian team, or Mao Asada getting beaten by an inferior Russian skater in both the technical mark (despite having one more triple than her closest competition) and the PCS (despite having a program that was artistically light years ahead and also creating a real, genuine, non home-cooked Olympic moment by bouncing back from severe disappointment in the short program). Let's face it, these games will always have an asterisk by them as will the Russian skaters who got on the podium because it's just too obvious that their marks were not deserved.

    Still, I've gotta hand it to all the non-Russian skaters who got on to that rink and skated their best despite performing in front of a pretty classless audience and an obviously corrupt judging panel.

  9. #249
    Yulia and Ruslena team forever! Alba's Avatar
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    I might be wrong but I think it would be more easy to understand the difference if we compare both Carolina's step sec. and Sotnikova's, since both got level 4 no?

    Sky Sport Italia did something similar with a video for example.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The rule is quite clear. The interpretation given by Blades of Passion is not an interpretation at all -- it is just reading the words before us. Neither the ISU nor the IOC can change the result even if if is proved that the technical specialist and judges made mistakes.
    I have seen numerous times scores changed in the time a competition is going on. Unless there is a time limit for score changes scores can be changed and are changed all time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alba View Post
    I might be wrong but I think it would be more easy to understand the difference if we compare both Carolina's step sec. and Sotnikova's, since both got level 4 no?
    Good idea!

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I have seen numerous times scores changed in the time a competition is going on. Unless there is a time limit for score changes scores can be changed and are changed all time.
    I think there is a time limit -- 30 minutes? -- if you want to protest the scoring. To overturn a result after the fact, I think this can happen only in the case of an athlete failing a drug test or some kind of cheating on the part of the athlete -- like the fencer in 1976 who wired his suit to buzz a touch when he pushed a button concealed in his hand. -- that sort of thing. There have been many times (in boxing for instance) where the judge was suspended after the bout for favoritism, politics, or bias -- but the result stands. I believe that the reason for this is so that people cannot pressure anyone after the event is done.

    IIRC, Tim Woods lost the 1968 Olympic Gold medal because one of the judges held up his cards in the wrong order and gave a 3.5 instead of a 5.3 on one of his figures -- something like that. Too bad.

    This is over.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-13-2014 at 08:22 PM.

  13. #253
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    well its official. i will click on anything online. but i'm glad i clicked on this thread. not knowing how adelina got the marks she got was keeping me up at night. BoP, i agree with everything you've said, right down to a certain former olympic champion's unnnaturally fat cheeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    To call her steps "sloppy" when 8/9 judges scored it +2 or +3, to suggest her choreography was bad when 8/9 judges scored it 9+ is more than wondering how her performance was scored. Being told you can't read or that Tara Lipinski is fat are attacks that are quite personal in nature.
    You're ignoring all the professionals who weren't on the judging panel and panned Adelina's choreography/skating skills. She is a laughing stock among people who know about skating. It is not a controversy because everyone is a hardcore Yuna Kim fan. It is a controversy because Adelina is just not that good.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    What experts? The judges are mostly not experts. They are not given sufficient training and there is no specific standard they are held to other than being in the 'corridor' with each other. And then of course there are the conflicts of interest...
    Do you feel that the tech panels are also insufficiently trained?

    As far as the judges are concerned, for the most part they do grade the programs closely to one another, with the exception of a few outliers.

    While you may be right that there is insufficient training for judges, 8 of the 9 judges scored Adelina very high on her steps and her choreography. That your assessment is more in-line with the outlier, rather than the group of 8, raises questions. Do you think all eight of those judges are either (a) insufficiently trained or (b) biased? There were several judges from countries that would no doubt not be partial towards Adelina but should have sufficient training, IIRC these include CAN, JPN, FRA, GER and ITA. I would expect more than one of these countries would send a judge that you feel is properly trained.

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